BS: Why all this vulgarity?

Subject: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 12:58 PM

Flowing with fashion, and brimming with ire
Critiques and teeth gnashin, with put downs a fire
This site is so negative sometimes to be seen
Suggestive regressive with a meanness too keen...

So, what is the point... where is the kindness?
The 'rights' we appoint betray spiritual blindness
For the process is rotten, when love stands corrected
Is encouragement forgotten, and compassion rejected?

And when humor relieves us with cynical snipes
That ol' devil decieves us into 'righteous by gripes'
And such laughter is sadder than the silence of hope
For the truth of the matter wants goodness to cope...

So come liberal, conservative, dark skinned and light
Let's join in restorative love in God's light
For bickering banters but wrack our relations
Into rondello ranters and spectator defamations

Is there some way, man... to buttress your soul
With affinity to truth, and love as your goal?
And yet build esteeming with the sureness of joy
As sensible redeeming is for all good employ...
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 01:33 PM

You've been scarce around here, Thomas! What's up?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 01:41 PM

I think the poem explains why!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 01:45 PM

The Mudbard is back! Thank you, Thomas.

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: harpgirl
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 02:07 PM

It is sad, Thomas. But no one seems willing to take charge of the problems. Same old dysfunctional family dynamics, I suppose. Not an attractive place.

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 02:46 PM

Wal, I've been a contributor to both the poor side and the bright side of that division, no question, and bright is better.

One thing I can do about it is to stop being drawn into verbal matches of vulgarity with others.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 03:11 PM

there's so much gratuitous* vulgarity because some people can't express themselves without it. I guess they feel they have not been forceful enough unless they throw in a few expletitives. I can't tell you why people get like that.


*Without cause .."a gratuitous insult"
Unnecessary and unwarranted

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 03:50 PM

Those with a habit of using four letters word that roll off their tongues stumble over the one that starts with L...ove. I haven't heard as many swear words as I hear in here since I was in the boys room at school when I was ten. Kinda nostalgic, but I could do without it.

I always found bad boys kinda boring and limited..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 03:58 PM

I always found goody two shoes, holier than thou religious types kinda boring and limited...

Kindness, politeness, and manners have nothing whatsoever to do with cussing and swear words, unless you are either/both middle class or of a religious bent.

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: *Laura*
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 04:02 PM

"We ain't no delinquents - we're misunderstood!" - good man.

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 04:07 PM

What fucking vulgarity are you bastards all friggin' blethering on about?

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 04:27 PM

TTR, nice fucking poem.

What the fuck do you have next?

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Auggie
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 06:40 PM

Back when I knew it all (that would be 7th or 8th grade) we had a young, female, fresh out of college Latin teacher whose authority was tested with repeated profanity from yours truly and two or three of my classmates for the first week of the semester.

Eventually she confronted the situation by surprisingly telling us such language would indeed be allowed. She even cited a few examples from classic literature where such words were invoked. Then she looked the offenders squarely in the eye and remarked to the rest of the class that while in her opinion, hearing such language merely reinforced her conviction that the users obviously lacked sufficient intellect and vocabulary to express themselves in a more intelligent and coherent fashion, my classmates were free to draw their own individual conclusions regarding us.

We Came, We Saw, We Were Conquered

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Teresa
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 06:50 PM

Well, I think that we are all discerning, mature folk, so we need not wait for someone to take charge. We can be in charge of our own behavior. I love your poem, TtR. I'm going to keep it in mind if/when I go off the deep end. :)

Teresa

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 07:32 PM

Rhyming poetry sucks

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 07:52 PM

ClintonHammond

Rhyming poetry, like non-rhyming poetry and song, may or may not suck. You, on the other hand...

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: GUEST,e.e.cumming
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 08:03 PM

I'm writing poetry just for you,
using swear words no stronger
than 'pee' and 'poo'..
you appeal to my conscience
to find kindness and the 'light'
and I'm desperately trying not to end this short poem
with a rhyme that is shite !?

damn and blast I'd hoped not to swear
now my soul is burning in deepest despair..
I vowed you language no worse than 'pee' or 'poo'
oh arseholes and spunkwipes
whatever I try to do
wanksocks and twatcrisps
my vocab's too blue

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 08:17 PM

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

Rudyard Kipling

(Kipling turned down many honours offered to him including a knighthood, Poet Laureate and the Order of Merit, but in 1907 he accepted the Nobel Prize for Literature.)

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Jeep man
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 08:28 PM

The most beautiful prose or lyrics ever written were well served without vulgarity. IE The Holy Bible.

If a person cannot express himself without crude expressions or vulgarity, he should limit his audience to just himself. Jeep

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 08:40 PM

Well, ttr, good you hear from you, my friend... Yeah, we gotta a couple bad apples in the barrel right now but I'm confident that they'll get beyond this juvinile phase they are going thru... The biggest problem is that they have bogged the joint down 'cause rather respectable folks, myself (well, I'm assuming I have some respect?) included, have responded to them...

Poor ol' Amos has fallen fir their bait prolly more than he would liked but, hey, he's got this ongoing Bush thread that has 'um bugged, so Amos id their favorite target...

Of course I ain't gonna bring myself down to their level but I need to be stronger in not responding to them at all...

As fir the part in yer poem about sharing love, I like that. I think if we could all "just get along" (Rodney King) and share a little more love then things could work out...

Unfortunately, the only folks that seem to want to get along are the folks who are on the wrong side ot the political power equation...

Takes two to tango.

Peace 'n I been missing yer voice...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: GUEST,vinegar & soap mouth wash
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 12:26 AM

maybe not so much a

good v bad
left v right
christian v heathen
upper class v underclass
etc v etc

bunch of simplistic polarities as people might be inclined to think..

maybe in a lot of cases
its just good old fashioned generation gap
differentiating tolerance levels
to swearing and crudity

so lets consider..

whats the average age of folks here so oversensitive to vulgarity ?


though then again..

old v not quite so old

is just another simplistic polarity.............

oh well, thats that theory fucked then !

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 12:33 AM

Yo, vinegar....

I was following you there fir a second then you like flamed out, like Apollo 13 and made no sense.... Maybe it was yer key board, drugs, flashbacks, I donno, but you flamed out....

Post again...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 06:42 AM

What a profound approach to criticism we got there from Clinton Hammond. Universally extensible too:

Rhyming poetry sucks.
Poetry that doesn't rhyme sucks.
All poetry sucks.
Prose sucks.

I suck,
You suck,
He, she and it sucks.
We all suck
You all suck
They all suck.
Everyone sucks.

Everything sucks...

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 06:45 AM

nice fucking poem.


john

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: GUEST,Com Seangan
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 07:33 AM

To Freda
Thanks for reminding us of Kipling's "IF" poem. It is masterly. You obvioiusly love him a lot. I do too - only it is a pity that he despised the Irish so much. But he did write great quotable stuff that makes sense to people of all ages - even today.

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: GUEST,JH
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 08:11 AM

There are a number of ways to gain attention in a community. Among them:

1. kindness
2. knowledge/wisdom
3. shouting and vulgarity

#s 1 and 2 are difficult. They require skill and/or sacrifice. #3 is easy, requires little effort, and gets results. This community is little about knowledge or wisdom anymore (the death of the knowledgable, the moving on of the wise). Now it's just a crowded house and juvenile behavior gets its desired response.

Most people would rather get the right kind of attention, but after a prolonged time any attention will do. And it usually only takes a person or two to cross the line and it's as though a dam breaks.

There are ways that vulgarity can be utterly hilarious and entertaining. Catspaw used to do it all the time. The difference is manifold -- 1. a balance in the offering, 2. talent/true wit to the writing, 3. timing, 4. knowing your reader(s).

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 09:17 AM

what a generous response, Com. i didnt know he hated the irish - i am half irish myself.

it always amazes me how great, brilliant people can have such horribly human flaws. just like us daggy, ordinary people.

best wishes to you

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: 42
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 09:26 AM

I dislike vulgar language not because it's vulgar but because it's lazy and meaningless. If I hit my finger with a hammer I'm not going to worry about deleting my expletives...but, if I'm trying to emphasize a point or explain my take on various subjects, I will take the time to choose specific words that will help get my ideas across.

   Mind you... the words 'nice','good','cool','awesome' and other words of that ilk are also considered "swear" words in my classroom.

   and, as Edith Ann would say "that's the truth!" phuttttttt!

j

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: JennyO
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 09:33 AM

Mind you, there are times when something tries your patience so much, that you just HAVE to let out a few swear words, as in the subject of this poem by Blue the Shearer, a bush poet and one of our National Treasures.


Chain Saw Massacre

By Blue the Shearer

I'm not a proper greenie - I still burn wood for heat.
Wood that's dead and fallen down. Green trees I won't deplete.
I scour the paddocks round my town, amid the brush and fern,
To find some wood, and cut it up, and take it home to burn.

But Bushman's saws and axes have proven such a bore,
That I've gone and bought a chain-saw from the local store.
"Now is the winter of my discontent." That bloody saw of mine,
Must have been on Shakespeare's mind, when he penned that line.

I'm not a man of violence, I'm rarely known to curse.
(Now and then I'll use one to illustrate a verse)
I'm a quiet man. A gentle man. Forever seeking peace.
But lately, violence in my soul is fighting for release.

As an instrument of torture, the chain-saw's pretty good.
But it's pretty bloody useless when it comes to cutting wood.
There you go. I'm swearing. That's not like me at all,
My parents used to caution me that bad words mean a fall.

I recall my mother warning me, when I was just a lad
That: "Swearing's really wicked." "That's right." said my dad.
"Naughty little swear words, such as dash and blow
Lead you on to worse words, and take you down below."

In hindsight now, I understand why my folk rarely swore.
They never had to use a two-stroke motor bloody saw.
By non-operating chain-saws, they were not tormented.
The stinking, rotten, mongrel things, hadn't been invented.

They were not frustrated when the bastard wouldn't start,
Or wouldn't cut, or threw its chain. No. Swearing is an art,
Perfected by the chainsaw user out there in the mulga.
Inventing brand new phrases, both profane and vulgar.

Oh! They won't start the chainsaw. On that point I agree.
But they lift the art of swearing to the very "nth" degree.
Bullockies and shearers, stevedores and boozers,
Are just ordinary swearers, compared to chain-saw users.

I've developed such a hatred for everyone connected,
With chainsaw manufacture, and even those suspected
Of adding to the torture of chain-saw using folk,
Who suffer from their failure, I tell you. It's no joke.

But I am going to be revenged. My demonic plan
Is to become a chain-saw massacerer, to dismember every man,
From the one who first invented it, whoever that may be.
And finish with that mongrel bastard who sold mine to me.

What joy! What retribution! All that blood and gore.
Armless, legless, headless corpses, strewn around the floor.
But that lovely vision in my mind is rudely blown apart -
I can't be a chainsaw massacerer,
THE BLOODY THING WON'T START!

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 09:40 AM

The vulgarity isn't nearly as bad as the whining about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Cluin
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 12:00 PM

Vulgarity is a tool likle any other part of the language. Great when used properly, clumsy when used for the wrong job. You can drive a nail with a torque wrench, but a hammer works much better.

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: s&r
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 12:01 PM

e e cummings didn't use capitals.

stu

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 12:05 PM

He just wrote from a provincial capital perspective.

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: GUEST,e.e.cumming
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 01:12 PM

e e cummings ? who ?????


i'm e.e.cumming

but I always insist the wife cums first..

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 03:29 PM

42, do you sit on the toilet and like to take a nice health "fluffy?"

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 10:40 AM

I said this in another thread - but try to avoid just 4 words: god, damn, heaven, and hell, and see how emphatic you can be. I am left with words like Very. Seriously limiting, it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 11:06 AM

Dang, Guest, you must have an extremely limited vocabulary if you only can think of five words to be emphatic.

The dictionary is full of them. Anyone who wants to take more than ten seconds to think can express anger, disgust, contempt (as well as joy, thankfulness and love) with a plethora of good, commonly used words. It does require thinking though. As someone said, if you hit your thumb with a hammer, whatever comes to mind works fine. I don't think the people who limit themselves to a five word vocabulary in here hit themselves on the thumb with a hammer every time they get on the computer. They do it because they think they are upsetting people, which is there small pleasure in life. I don't find the vulgarity upsetting. Just intellectually small.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 11:15 AM

Is vulgarity a perception?

Is oral sex dirty?

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 11:18 AM

"when correctly viewed,
Everything is lewd:"

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 11:58 AM

I went through a dangerous and painful surgical procedure recently, ('potential hazards ~ stroke, heart attacks, need for pacemaker, deaths have occurred' sort of dangerous) and the strongest I could come up with on that occasion was 'fig'. The other F word has been used so much it has lost its impact, in my area it's an adjective, a noun, a verb and a term of endearment.

That isn't to say I don't swear, I do... but when the mind is concentrated by say, someone sticking 4 wires up into your heart via your groin, and turning the power on, the actual word is not important.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:24 PM

"If" sanctimonious Victorian drivel.
Now I could have said Bollox.
PP

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:46 PM

Hundreds of my illustrated poems over the years:

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/links.html

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 01:56 PM

I think what you said there was actually an excellent example of that last word you used, Pied Piper.

Incidentally, Vin Garbutt (who goes in for heart surgery this Wednesday), put a tune to "If" and made an excellent recording of it, with the note "As a way of life I can't fault it." Makes pretty good sense to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Why all this vulgarity?
From: GUEST,e.e cumming
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 02:04 PM

I wrote the above "wanksocks and twatcrisps" poem

so I think I'm qualified to say
that despite his Victorian ideological shortcummings,
Kipling was a fucking terrificly good writer !