Anti-Dem message

Subject: Anti-Dem message
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 09:44 PM

WASHINGTON -- As former Vermont governor and Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean took the helm of the Democratic National Committee a week ago, he declared he would make the party competitive in all 50 states, including in the South.
It was a bold promise for a party that has not won a single Southern electoral vote in the past two presidential elections. To Southern ears it sounded all the more unlikely coming from Dean, who famously remarked early in his failed presidential bid last year that he wanted to be the choice of the "guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks."
With Republicans having tightened their grip on the region in 2004, some Democrats openly advocate writing off the 11 states of the Old Confederacy as a lost cause. But others are busy hatching plans to regain a footing in a region the party dominated for much of the 20th century.
Next week, the liberal Center for American Progress is co-hosting a conference at the University of North Carolina called "New Strategies for Southern Progress" that will probe topics such as "The Mind of the South" and "Rethinking the Role of Faith and the Community," according to the conference program. The centrist Democratic Leadership Council has gone even further in forging a new Democratic identity, crafting a how-to manual for candidates on how to talk about hot-button issues such as gun control, abortion and affirmative action without alienating Southern voters.
Hewing to the adage that success in life mostly involves just showing up, Dean believes that visibility in the South is the key. He said in his DNC acceptance speech that he plans to replicate the success of his own Internet powered, grass-roots fund-raising efforts and will hardwire a network of activists throughout the South. He also said he plans to spend a lot more time below the Mason-Dixon line.
"People will vote for Democrats in Texas, in Utah, in West Virginia if we knock on their doors," Dean said. "I believe more people are aligned with the beliefs of the Democratic Party than they are with the beliefs of the Republican Party."
That's a curious conclusion to draw judging by the most recent presidential election. In 2004, President Bush expanded his margin of victory in every Southern state except North Carolina, the home state of Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards. According to one post-election analysis, Bush won 85 percent of all Southern counties and 90 percent of those that have white majorities.
No easy fight
The news doesn't get any better for Democrats as they glance down the ballot. All five retiring Democratic senators from the South, including Louisiana's John Breaux, had their seats claimed by Republicans in 2004. And University of Maryland political scientist Thomas Schaller said even Democrats' once-solid grip on statehouses in the South has loosened. In state legislative races in the region last year, Democrats lost 36 House seats and 11 Senate seats, he said.
Schaller, a Democrat, said the party should fold its tent and abandon the South. That's essentially what Democratic nominee John Kerry did in the 2004 presidential contest, pulling campaign finances from every Southern state except Florida after Labor Day to boost his campaign operations in other parts of the country.
Schaller said the party should attempt to portray Republicans as the "Party of the South," in a negative sense. He would attempt to tar the GOP with the South's legacy of opposition to civil rights and remind voters elsewhere that some Southerners are still fighting over displaying the Confederate flag.
"Don't conservatives talk about Democrats as Northeastern liberals?" Schaller said.
Schaller said Democrats could make some inroads in the South if voting districts with black majorities were redrawn to make them more racially diverse. Some, he said, are 70 to 80 percent African-American, which virtually ensures minority representation from those areas in Congress but stifles black turnout for what are frequently uncontested races. With more than 90 percent of African-Americans voting for Democrats in many elections, Schaller said it takes a toll, albeit an indirect one, on Democrats running statewide.
Some strategists believe that Democrats should target Southern border states that aren't as Republican red as those in the Deep South. They point to Virginia, North Carolina and Tennessee as potential targets. Kerry showed promise in parts of those states, such as northern Virginia, with its bustling technology corridor, proximity to Washington and explosion of young professionals willing to vote Democratic.
Cultural comfort level
Emory University's Merle Black, co-author of the 2002 book "The Rise of Southern Republicans," said there is little hope for Democratic presidential candidates in Deep South states such as Louisiana, even though the state voted for Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996. Breaux's retirement from the Senate and replacement by a Republican, he said, illustrates how things have changed from the days when few Southerners would ever think of pulling the lever for a GOP candidate.
"We're seeing a shift among white moderates in the South, with younger white moderates more likely to align with Republicans," he said. "The older ones are still with the Democrats, but they are leaving the electorate, literally. There is a generational replacement. That helps Republicans in the long term."
Black said that if Democrats are to be competitive in the border states in presidential races, they need to choose a "moderate, centrist candidate," which was the same advice Breaux gave to the party before retiring in January.
The candidate doesn't have to come from the South, but in the words of North Carolina political consultant Mac McCorkle, "It sure helps."
McCorkle said Clinton was successful in the South -- he captured five Southern states in his two campaigns -- not simply because he hailed from Arkansas, but because he had his regional bona fides in order.
"He could sing 'Amazing Grace' without looking at the hymnal," McCorkle said. "The candidate has to look comfortable with the traditions and the culture of the South. If he does, people will give him room to maneuver even if he's not from there."
Finding common ground
A key to Democratic acceptance, strategists say, is not alienating Southerners on social issues. At a conference in Atlanta in 2003 called "God, Guns and Guts," the Democratic Leadership Council counseled Democrats to embrace what it called "values centrism."
Will Marshall, president of the Leadership Council's think tank, said Republicans have been successful at framing issues such as gun control, abortion and affirmative action in a way that puts Democrats on the defensive. He said Democrats shouldn't avoid those issues, but rather change the terms of debate.
Democrats should acknowledge a constitutional right to bear arms, he said, but emphasize the need for responsibility in owning guns and the need for better enforcement of gun laws. And whatever you do, he said, don't be snooty.
"We aren't interested in denigrating the vast majority of law-abiding citizens who own guns," he said. "It's in the Republicans' interest to polarize these issues. If Democrats don't define themselves, there is a tendency for voters to default to stereotypes the Republicans have designated."
It appeared last month that Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., might have been following his advice. Clinton, widely seen as a potential contender if not front-
runner for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008, said her party ought to seek common ground with those who oppose abortion.
Dean also appeared to be trying out a more diplomatic line than voters saw in the Democratic primaries when he roused the party faithful with a full frontal assault on President Bush's decision to send the military into Iraq. Dean didn't mention Iraq in his Democratic National Committee acceptance speech. Instead he sought to focus on how Democrats talk about abortion and gay marriage. The party doesn't favor abortion, he said -- it supports a woman's right to make up her mind about "what kind of health care she wants." Democrats don't favor gay marriage, he said, but rather believe "in equal rights under the law."
To Ferrel Guillory, director of the Program on Southern Politics, Media and Public Life at the University of North Carolina, Democrats' success in the South is as much about message as messenger. Guillory said it's unlikely Democrats will enjoy the kind of dominance they once had in the South but that it isn't beyond the reach of the party to pick off a few Southern states and send a Democrat back to the White House.
"The right candidate with the right message can compete in some of the South," Guillory said. "Maybe not all of the South, and maybe not all of the time. But enough."
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>.....you know? Telling the truth just might help also. Seems to have worked for the conservatives.


Hubby

---

Note: Please remember that non-music copy-paste posts are supposed to be limited to One Screen of information. This one exceeds my 30-inch widescreen monitor, but I'll let it go this time.
Please don't do it again.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 09:45 PM

This should be BS.

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Amos
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 10:08 PM

Telling the truth did NOT work for the "conservatives", SH -- their leader has been an almost clinical falsifier of truth since he was the Gubbernator. He has never come clean about it, either. Do you need me to post more examples of his falsifications? To assert that this has been a party of truth sdayers after such scandalous PR attacks as the Swifties, just for one example, is indicative that your are in some sort of mesmerized dreamland. Bush wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the ass, and I hope   it does.

I guess you're practicing that artful dodger technique in hopes of rising in the ranks or some such.

God have mercy on your benighted soul.


A

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 10:23 PM

Amos,

I may have mis-spoke. I apologize.

What I meant is that the dems should try to tell the real truth. Not their own manufactured version.


Hubby

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 10:24 PM

Joe..

Please move this topic to below the line. My mistake in posting to the above portion.




Hubby

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 11:21 PM

if they want truth, they should learn from the Republicans and PAY some journalists to manufacture it, hmmm?

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Peace
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 11:41 PM

Unfortunately, truth and politics do seem mutually exclusive, don't they? It's a shame because becoming President was something many Americans would dangle as a carrot: "You could be President someday."

How many people say that to children anymore?

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 11:51 PM

Yeah, like a Dem is ever gonna win another state from the CSA... Let's get real here fir a minute. White doutherners don't like "niggas" and as long as white Southerners are in the majority, the Dems ain't gotta a chance...

Dean would do well to go after the Midwest and Southwest and leave Southern Man to his devices...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 11:57 PM

Bread and Circuses

I was surprised, however, to learn that more than forty percent of the voters in Alabama, the state in which I now live, voted for Kerry in this most recent election.

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 12:01 AM

Sheeaahht! Ya wanna see summa these good ol' boys down 'ere in Bubbaland vote fer a Democrat? Let the Republicans run Condie Rice in 2008! Hell, Luther an' Jim Bob'd vote fer Ted Kennedy 'fore they'd vote fer a African-American woman.

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 12:12 AM

Give it up, man. The Redemocrapublicants are a single party masquerading as 2 parties, and everyone in the World knows it except for the poor saps in the USA who waste their votes on them every couple of years...and I understand those poor saps are in a minority anyway, given the fact that more Americans don't vote than do. Not surprising, really, under the present political conditions.

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Alba
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 05:49 AM

I am comforted to know that Republicans don't lie...only Democrats...lol
As Carol says 40% of the vote in Alabama...now that's South ain't it??
It would seem that in order to support this current administration one would require a Tin foil Hat to bounce back any facts that may not fit the Truth. In fact, you know what I think, that this may help any Democrat in their quest to blank out any distortion of the facts.....Wear it and never worry again!!!
I am sorry but I am all Politicked out Folks.
If ye can't see the big picture then...hell why bother really.
We have 3 Years and 10 months till the next "election". If the last 4 are anything to go by I shudder to think what will have transpired by then.
Anyway I am off to get some of that there Tin Foil...it may also help deflect my identity on the Cat allowing me to post as a Guest and get to say some really mean things....:>)...Na I need my energy for better things than attacking Folks who don't share my Politics..:>)
Blessings and Best of Wishes to all, North, South, East and West.....
Jude

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 10:46 PM

And the election results are just in!!!!

$ySStem wins. People lose. Just like last time and the time before that and the time before that and the time before that and...

Make that, $ySStem wins by a landslide!!! (that's because the $ySStem picks all the main candidates ahead of time...)

It's sort of like the Pepsi/Coke taste test challenge. Either way you choose, you end up drinking expensive carbonated crap that's full of sugar and toxic chemicals and rots your teeth. Try drinking water instead. That's my advice. :-)

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 11:13 PM

Of course the Republicans have "tightened their grip on the South". The "southern strategy" spawned by that great Americasn Tricky Dick Nixon was put into high gear when saintly old Ronnie Reagan chose to kick off his first presidential campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi with a speech on "states rights"- not-so-secret code for "White Supremacy"- and Bush & Co. proudly carry his legacy on.

Yup, exploiting racism has worked a real treat for the Grand Old Party-
"The Party Of Lincoln" my arse. Some people's memories- apparently including Condi's and Colin's- are REAL short.

The "New South"? Right. Guess we're supposed to be grateful they're not hanging "Nig-rahs" from bridges any longer- or beating them to death with chains & burying them in earthen dams( a Philadelphia tradition)-- or maybe the BuShites plan to revive that approach in due time.

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 11:18 PM

Hey...but they make great cannon fodder, don't they? 3 meals a day and a nice uniform can be quite an enticement for someone growing up in an impoverished, crime-ridden ghetto.

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Amos
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 11:43 PM

What party did Lincoln run with when he achieved the Presidency, Greg?


A

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 08:59 AM

Republican, correct?

I think Greg's point was that the G.O.P. no longer exemplifies the moral principles that Lincoln espoused.

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: DougR
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 05:53 PM

Of course that is only Greg's opinion of course.

DougR

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: DougR
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 05:56 PM

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhh! Somebody tell Amos, his personal thread disappeared!

:>)
DougR

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 06:09 PM

Oh. Which one? I hope it's not the one holding up his pants...

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: DougR
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 07:51 PM

He must have spotted that it was gone, LH, 'cause I note he posted another harangue by Bush admirer, Maureen Dowd, this afternoon on it.

DougR

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 09:30 AM

Actually, Douggie, its not my opinion at all.

Its the prevailing conclusion of those that have actually studied the formation of the Republican Party from the Whigs and Free-Soilers in the 1850s, Lincoln's senate and presidential campaigns, the Lincoln presidency, the Civil War and Reconstruction, read Lincoln's writings and compared all that with the "Republican" party platforms, programs, and shenanigans of the last 30 years or so.

People that actually know the facts of the matter. People that have read a book or three. People who can make an informed judgement.

Of course, that leaves you out.

**

(Apologies to all for my violating my own 'prime directive' by engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent)

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 11:08 AM

Sorry to rain on your parade, yet again, Hubby, but it just ain't that simple.

For every theory that the South is becoming more Republican there's a counter-theory that , for instance the entire country may well be more open to Democrats, as the Hispanic population--all over the country--increases.

The Democrats will have to avoid the perception of being against organized religion--an idea that plays considerably better on Mudcat than elsewhere--does not play with many Hispanics, for instance--but it can be done.

Added to which, when it turns out that despite their majorities in the House and Senate, the Bushites have accomplished nothing domestically, there will be a backlash. The Wall St Journal editorial page, a good barometer of Neanderthal sentiment, is already exhibiting disappointment with Mr. Bush and his Congress.

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 11:27 AM

Actually, even that is an oversimplification. The Bushites do not have a majority in the House and Senate. A fair number of northeastern Republicans. for instance, have no intention of going along with many of Bush's wonderful ideas. Their view of Social Security, to pick an example, is not the same as that of Bush and his fellow intellectual giants.

And who will be running for re-election every 2 years in the House and every 6 years in the Senate?   Clue: not Bush.

Bush is already a lame duck, whose feeble influence will progressively slip away.

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 05:54 PM

Dream on...

The first thing to realize is that many of the southern voters who voted for Bush were perfectly happy to vote for black politicians whether Republican of Democrat. A look at the actual pluralities for both black and white southern politicians in the red states should have instructed all but the most willfully ignorant commenters above.

And, as the only Big Tent party now in existence, it is natural for the Republicans to disagree on several of the issues. The only ideologues left are the Lefties. Even Howeling Howard was trying to make that point in his last speech, though apparently only the Republicans were listening.

My bet is a McCain/Condi ticket will crush a Hillary/Obama ticket out of the gate...

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 06:03 PM

You're probably right, Claymore. But I thought you considered McCain to be a Pinko/Socialist Democrat who is only pretending to be a Republican. At least that's what I think I remember you telling me when I said I was thinking about voting for him two presidential elections ago.

;-)

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 06:15 PM

"You could be president some day"

Brucie, they still say that, but with the addition "if you don't stop telling lies you little b*****d"

DT

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 06:28 PM

McCain would have been a far better choice than what we wound up with this time (not that that's saying much). And Hilary has huge negatives.

But it's a long time til 2008.

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: GUEST,Confused from earth
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 05:11 AM

I heard the hispanics are not so keen on the Democrats anyway, especially florida way (soemthing to do with the whole cuba mess)

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 07:29 AM

Confused,

It has to do with Janet Reno's gun toting thugs busting into a little house and forcibly ripping a young boy out of the arms of his loving extended family and returning him to communist Cuba. I think that there's still a lot of people all over the country that is still upset by the image of the agent with his gun drawn and pointing in the face of the boy and his uncle. What did this little boy do to deserve this type of treatment? Was he that much of a danger to US interests that he had to be kidnapped from his own family and sent back to Castro's Shangri La?


Hubby

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 09:29 AM

No chance the parental rights of the boy's father entered into this at all, right Bubby?

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 09:52 AM

How would you feel if your own son was kidnapped by some cousins, taken to Cuba or China, and used as a pawn in a big political game to prove America is evil, Hubby Bubby? Would you want him back in his own home in his own country with his own father? I'm guessin' you would!

I've been to the city of Cardenas, in Cuba, where Elian Gonzales lives with his own family. It's a nice place, and Elian is a local hero there. All police carry guns, mister. It goes with the job. Does that make them thugs?

Grow up. Take a vacation in Cuba sometime, you silly sap. It's a heck of nice place. Beats hell out of the ghettos in Miama, I'll tell you that.

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 02:19 PM

kidnapped by cousins? How quick you libs are to forget the details of the story.

Elian was brought to the US by his mother who died within sight of the Florida coastline. She was bringing him to the better life offered by just being in America. So the issue was to either fulfill the wishes of the mother who died trying to give the boy something that could never have been achieved in Castro's Cuba (Freedom) or give in to Castro's demands. People are really short-sighted if they think that the father's parental rights had anything to do with this. You could even tell by the interviews of the father that he really wanted to let his son stay in the US but his gov't had already made up his mind for him. He was obviously scared at the thought of saying something against those in power. Evidently, Clinton came through again by promising the best to both parties and not interested in doing anything but getting his pipe polished by fat interns. He sure came through for his party, however, by giving in to the demands of the communists. It happens the same way every time a lib is in power.


Hubby

Subject: RE: Anti-Dem message
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 03:00 PM

Hubby,

If you'll recall, Janet Reno came to the family days after both the Florida Supreme Court and the Supreme Court ruled against them, and asked them to give up the child in accordance with the law of the land. They refused, and what happened next was on them. I visit Florida a couple times a year, and although there is a lawsuit by the family for pain and suffering, it stands no chance of going anywhere, based on those facts. In fact, the Cubans were voting Republican long before this incident (has to do with Bay of Pigs) and continue to support Jeb Bush (and his brother) to this day.

And CarolC, I did not call him a pinko under any circumstances, though the other names were close to my thoughts. But he did stand behind Bush when it counted, the Republican Big Tent has him inside, and it is now clearly his turn to run. And I do believe that this ticket could drive the Democrats into the sea for generations to come. (So now we can both come home... I'll save you a seat ;)