First aiders at folk events

Subject: First aiders at folk events
From: woodsie
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 07:31 AM

The folk club (UK) that I attend have a couple of camping weekends a year. These last for about 3 days in an open field with a campfire burning. There are usually between thirty and fifty people camping for one, two or three nights. We have a complete first aid kit and hopefully soon a trained first aider on site. Somebody has suggested that we are in breach of health & safety regulations as we should have one first aider for every five people! That seems a bit over the top to me, does anybody have any info on this?

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: jimL
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 07:45 AM

on Google I searched using these terms :-
informal camp site first aid legal

and found, amongst a load of other stuff this :-
http://www.stedmundsbury.gov.uk/sebc/live/lipelsafe.pdf

a local council guide which suggests 2 first aiders / 500 participants

when people tell you stuff, make THEM produce the chapter and verse before you start worrying :-)

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: jimL
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 07:48 AM

BTW, a government health warning about your camp -

fires can be hot
do not eat walls
trees can fall on you
babies can choke on cows
your tent might get into a flap
all life ends in death

er

Jim

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 07:55 AM

And remember not to tread in cowpats, Jim.

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: Grab
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:44 AM

Way OTT. Consider a football match with 20,000 people watching. By that joker's figures, they'd need 4000 first aiders! You'd be lucky to find 4000 first aiders in any city, never mind at a single football match...

Graham.

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: woodsie
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:55 AM

Thanks guys!

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 09:15 AM

Be prepared for a stampede of unqualified first aiders attempting amateur surgery in the event someone gets injured ;-)

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 09:23 AM

Casting my mind back to the long distant past when I had a day Job and was a Company First Aider the legal requirement for a Company was something like five per hundred members of staff - BUT dont quite me as my memory is NOT what it was . I dont think the health and safety regulations have a lot of bearing on people engaged in a totally voluntary activity in a non commercial field .
Of Course , IF its a Commercial camp site there will be regulations
regarding all sorts of things !

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: Snuffy
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 09:38 AM

JudeL often organises the first aiders at festivals. Pm her for advice

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 09:42 AM

In my last job I co-ordinated the first aid training, I had one aider for each 50 staff, but I seem to recall the legal requirement is one per 100

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: mindblaster
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 04:23 AM

Kate Bush once gave first aid to Boy George!

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 07:13 PM

Remeber, Jim is inflammable

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: GUEST,Ex First Aider at work
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 07:31 PM

Don't wish to appear rude, but instead of asking for help on this forum, have you actually considered making a direct approach to St John's Ambulance Brigade or the Red Cross who both provide formal First Aid training, and should be able to provide you with the correct legal requirements in this sort of circumstance, instead of seeking opinions from members of the general public or Googling for information.It's always better to seek answers to important questions like this from someone who is in the position to provide a properly informed answer when given all the proper facts.

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 02:20 AM

Do I need a first aider if I have a barbeque in my back garden and invite a few folk singers along to keep us amused?

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 07:48 AM

Bandages? We don't want no stinking bandages!

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 08:04 AM

A quick look seems to suggest that the legal requirements are vague, along the lines of adequate first-aid support available, subject to a risk assessment. The St John site has a guideline table for various workplace levels of risk and numbers of employees - go to St.John and down to the Risk Assessment Link - Show the guide to number of First-Aiders... .

Mick

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: GUEST,Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 09:23 AM

One important thing to remember - and this includes the St John's Brigade.... if you have a general public arena that opens at a specific time then strictly speaking, the site should not open until the first aider/St John's rep is present. I've had words with St John's and a festival organiser before now about this.

LTS

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: GUEST,rhyzla - up the back tube!
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 11:43 AM

Villan's comments above about a bbq are relevant!

If your gathering is non-commercial, i.e a bunch of friends going camping together and no money changes hands, then how can any Health and Safety issues apply.

If it is a commercial campsite, then the camp management are the one's doing the assessment of risk (!)

We are not oblidged to carry first aid kits with us at all times -or are we!!!??

Barry

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 12:13 PM

So are you coming to my bbq then Barry with Rhyzome :-)

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 12:19 PM

Sorry that was The Villan just posting

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: mandoleer
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 04:23 PM

Speaking as a first aider (FAW) and former member of one of the voluntary organisations - you definitely don't need that many. Ye gods, 1 to 5! I'm not even sure you need to provide St John or Red Cross cover for less than 1000 at an event, depending on the type of event. Similar at work - there are high risk and low risk places. A football match is fairly high risk, a folk event is fairly low risk - and you're more likely to find that you've got first aid trained people there as well! The rallies I go to (not folk, but our current chairman is a Morris dancer) have a first aid kit centrally, and encourage people to bring whatever they want themselves. They've checked the legal side of it, and as it's not a commercial venture open to anybody from outside, that's all that's needed. Your camping weekends don't come into the class of high risk or commercial, and the numbers involved wouldn't even need a full FAW - an Appointed Person would suffice as a bonus for the campers.

Subject: RE: First aiders at folk events
From: GUEST,Pete
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 07:17 PM

I suggest you get a copy of the 'Event Safety Guide' published by the Health & Safety Executive (HSG195) and check your event against the assessment on pages 131-134.

From how you describe your event you should have 4 qualified First Aiders present.

Apologies to mandoleer but the ESG makes it clear you should provide first aid cover even if you have less than 1000 persons at your event.

Hope this is helpful. The 'Event Safety Guide' is the 'bible' for the outdoor events industry and even the smallest folk festivals and gatherings would do well to invest in a copy.