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british chromatic BCC# button accordion

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buttonbox 12 Mar 05 - 04:05 PM
treewind 12 Mar 05 - 04:42 PM
buttonbox 12 Mar 05 - 05:22 PM
buttonbox 12 Mar 05 - 05:32 PM
Bernard 12 Mar 05 - 08:09 PM
buttonbox 13 Mar 05 - 03:40 AM
Dave Wynn 13 Mar 05 - 10:32 AM
buttonbox 13 Mar 05 - 11:08 AM
buttonbox 14 Mar 05 - 08:47 AM
buttonbox 14 Mar 05 - 01:28 PM
concertina ceol 14 Mar 05 - 03:56 PM
buttonbox 15 Mar 05 - 05:32 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 05 - 06:57 AM
buttonbox 15 Mar 05 - 09:34 AM
buttonbox 15 Mar 05 - 05:18 PM
GUEST,Lemon Squeezer 23 Jan 06 - 04:12 PM
GUEST,Jack Campin 23 Jan 06 - 08:11 PM
GUEST,george garside 26 Jan 06 - 04:08 PM
GUEST,Ted 23 Apr 09 - 06:52 PM
Ross Campbell 23 Apr 09 - 09:13 PM
Barry Finn 23 Apr 09 - 11:00 PM
GUEST 27 Oct 12 - 12:58 PM
Gutcher 27 Oct 12 - 07:05 PM
GUEST,Dazbo at home 28 Oct 12 - 02:16 PM
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Subject: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: buttonbox
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 04:05 PM

Why is this system as played by the late,great, Sir Jimmy Shand not more popular. It is the natural progression for Irish BC &CC# players who would like the benefit of stradella (accordion)bass. Any 2 row player would be able to play their repertoire on 2 of the three rows in exactly the same way as on a two row box. The third row just makes matters a lot easier! giving much easier fingering & bellows direction over a greater range of keys.


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: treewind
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 04:42 PM

I used to play a Hohner Gaelic IV which used this system. It was very heavy! Having all that weight in the left hand end on a piano or continental chromatic accordion is OK, but when you have to do rapid sudden bellows reversal to get some of the notes with that much weight - it can be done, but as soon as I picked up a pokerwork melodeon it was so much easier to play I was hooked!

Anahata


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: buttonbox
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 05:22 PM


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: buttonbox
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 05:32 PM

\Hi treewind
thats why Jimmy Shand was so economical with the bellows - the sudden ins & outs can be reduced to a minimum by using the alternative notes which are there for everything other than GD&A of which there is only one of each per octave. The less bellows open the easier to do the quick changes when requ;ired. JS often played complete tu;nes (with bass) on a bare 2 or 3 pleats of bellows! this also greatly reduces the strain on left shoulder that piano accordion players (& continentals) can suffer from. The Hohner Gaelic is a great box if you can get hold of a good one, quite moderate in weight and superbly playable. Why Paulo Soprani never made a three row 48 bass version of their elite 2 row 8; bass boxes I don't know - ssuch a 4 vo;ice comact box would be very useful. I play a 3 voice Caseli 48 bass with Scottish; musette tuning which is a very nice lightweight BCC# and have a Paulo Soprani Elite 4 80 bass 4 voice for sale for £995 if anybody is interested.(this is very good value)


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: Bernard
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 08:09 PM

Ey up, BB, how's tricks?!

...and who else but our own John Kirkpatrick makes it look so easy! He, too, mastered the art of economy of effort with the bellows - which he even applies to the pokerwork. As good a player as Jimmy was, John takes the instrument to a completely different level...

John currently uses an 'Orfeo', which apparently is of Hohner origin, but assembled and marketed by Bell Accordions (now defunct), who were the UK Hohner 'main dealer'. At one point they were even owned by Hohner. Allodi in Lewisham bought up the remaining spares stocks when Bell folded. Emilio Allodi was my source for this info, BTW.

John had the '7th' chord row buttons removed, because he didn't use them and they got in the way!! That came straight from John, so it isn't hearsay.

If you haven't seen Anahata (Treewind) play, make sure you do - he ain't no slouch (Anglo Concertina, too!) - and with Mary Humphreys on English they make a lovely sound!


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: buttonbox
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 03:40 AM

cheers Bernard

just tryingying to wind up a bit of interest in the 3row box!JK must be the only one to have his 7ths removed (sounds painful), he is also devoid of couplers being 4 voice or nothing so to speak - saves any problem balancing both ends. My Casali is like that but only 3 voice and does seem to have a very nice balance between the ends. John had one the same at one time, possibly still has.


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 10:32 AM

I have a Honner Anatoma IV B/C. It weighs about three hundred-weight. I have found that I can learn a new tune on this system providing I have never played it on my D / G , or if it is all on one row. But crossing the rows on a B / C means learning completely different scales (from the D/G) to play in keys like G and D and it's too much bother.

Having read that back I have to say that I know what I mean even if I didn't explain it well.!!

p.s It has four coupling keys and one of the voices is so "wet" that it's almost fun to see people suffering when I (rarely) use it.

Spot


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: buttonbox
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 11:08 AM

in the interests of keeping this thread going I find the BC (and BCC# easier to play from the dots than the DG as the main seqence of notes on the C row stay the same (ish) whereas the D row is completely different from the G row as far as which is push & which is pull (on ;the DG box that is)AThe big limiter of t;he BC & its close relatives is t;he lack of viable bass which is why the BCC# usually has accordion ,same both way, bass.

some of us prefer so called wet tuning - is this something that could be usefully debated e.g. how much + and - % on the reeds turns wet into dry? or vice versa, what is standard hohner pokerwork tuning, paulo soprani, shand morino etc etc.

over to somebody else

cheers
bb


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: buttonbox
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 08:47 AM

john kirkpatrick & I are trying to put together a list of british button box (BCC~) players sor mutual support & the ?odd gathering. anybody interested pleasepersonal message me with a few detais of themself & their box.
Anybody wanting to take up this tyupe of box also welcome on list.

These boxes are not totally illogical - they are logically illogical!!!


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: buttonbox
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 01:28 PM

see previous posting


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: concertina ceol
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 03:56 PM

So BB how heavy is that "Paulo Soprani Elite 4 80 bass 4 voice for sale for £995" and do the straps come with plenty of adjustment and plenty of padding?


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: buttonbox
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 05:32 AM

the paulo soprani weighs about 18 lb (8 kilos) which is about average for a 4 voice quality 80 bass box. and comes with standard 80 bass padded accordion straps with; plenty of adjustment. in bulk it is about two thirds the size of a 120 bass box and when played sitting with weight taken mostly on knee weighs alot less!

bb


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 06:57 AM

Has anyone ever heard of a similar arrangement, ie BCC#, on an Anglo concertina? My 2 30 buttons are both C/G with accidentals on the third row that give me a reasonable but sometimes difficult range of keys. I am considering trading in my cheapo hohner and was going to go for a G/D but the idea of a british chromatic anglo appeals to the perverse side of my (un)musical nature:-)

Out of interest why B/C or C/C#? Does that make other keys any simpler? Why not a D/Eb for instance?

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: buttonbox
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 09:34 AM

both the b and the c# rows contain the accidentals but in opposite directions of the bellows. the middle 'c' row can be played 'on the row' with the usual gd series of bellows reversals or can be played accross the rows with only 2 reversals.
as an over simplification the c row is like the whitenotes on a piano and the other two rows are the black notes,However it is much more interesting than that as runs like cde can be played accross all 3 rows in the same bellows direction and for example the key of a can be plaayed all in one bellows direction if required - fascinating.
I have never come across a bcc# concertina but can't see any reason why it could'nt be done

cheers

george


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: buttonbox
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 05:18 PM

refreshing this thread


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: GUEST,Lemon Squeezer
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 04:12 PM

I play the D/G melodeon but would like to learn something chromatic.
Guess I'm looking at either a B/C/C# box like John Kirpatricks (which I've had no success in finding anywhere) or a continental button accordion. I'm not sure what varieties of these there are, or what would be the best direction given my melodeon roots.

Anyone have any suggestions or links?


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 08:11 PM

I've just bought a continental button accordion. The idea of trying to get my brain round the British system was terrifying, though it does give you more notes per kilogram than anything else.

The New Grove article "Accordion" is pretty good on the variants. Mine is a C-system, the commonest treble layout used for Scottish and French music, but the bass end is Belgian (no 7ths, you build them by pressing two buttons at once - there is a dim row, and the spare row is used for an extra counterbass row). The B-system (vertical reflection of the C-system, more or less) is commoner in Russia - there's not much to choose between them.

Apparently Jimmy Shand said near the end of his career that if he'd had his time again he'd have gone for the CBA instead.

The accordion club at Windygates in Fife seems to be the epicentre of things British-chromatic, at least for the Shand Morinos. There are not many young players of them, but the ones there are can be awesome.


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: GUEST,george garside
Date: 26 Jan 06 - 04:08 PM

the BCC# is probably easier for a Dg melodeon player to progress to than the continental. Best way to look at it is as a one row in C with 2 rows of accidentals!!

many notes are available on both the press & draw of the bellows or it can be played in exactly the same way as a BC but with bass that work. the keys a,   b, bflat, c, d, e flat, e, f, g, a flat & related minors are all available and the player has the choice of playing mostly on the row or using the alternative didrections to 'smooth' the playing.   Skilled use of the alternative notes also enables the box to be played with minimum opening of the bellows. At the moment I have three students learning this system, 2 ex piano accordion & 1 ex dg.

BCC# boxes sometimes crop up on the 'Box & Fiddle' website or magazine & can range from 12 bass hohner trichord (2 or 3 voice) up to 117 bass Shand Morino. Accordions of London stock some new 72 bass models and also paolo soprani   4 voice 80 bass which I can recommend. Other good ones include 48 bass casali which is very light and 98 bass hohner gaelic which has a nice sound & handles particularly well.


george


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: GUEST,Ted
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 06:52 PM

I came across this thread while searching for info on Hohner Gaelic IV or Trichord 3 rows --

There is currently a 48 bass Hohner for sale on an Ebay store on the US Ebay -- $999

These seem pretty rare over here in the States --

Ted


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 09:13 PM

A b/c/csharp arrangement on the anglo concertina would surely give a seriously restricted range on the right hand. If you worked up left-hand dexterity to cover the lower range, you would lose the ability to vamp chords on the left hand which the standard arrangement allows (or even encourages). While that practice carries its own restrictions, it's one reason that the standard arrangement has remained popular.

Ross


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: Barry Finn
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 11:00 PM

I not to long ago I bought a 3 row A/D/G and can't play it,,,,,yet.
I've been trying to find other players of this but seeing as it's most popular use here in the sates is with Tex/Mex players & seeing as I'm in the northeast, well, you can imagine. I have been able to work out slow airs & songs by air/ear but I can't do both at the same time, it's either play slow or sing not both, in time, maybe. I just missed an accordion festival that was held in early April on the outskirts of Boston, found out after it was over on the following Monday.


Thought I'd just pipe in

Barry


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 12:58 PM

To Buttonbox.I can help with names and box types in Scotland! I have a red Shand Morino, a black Shand and a 5 row Fantini 96 bass double cassotto converted to diatonic
look me up on you tube
Robin waitt


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: Gutcher
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 07:05 PM

Listen to James [Jimmy] Shands first ever recording on you tube from 1934, no one can compete with him. Robin is very good but for the real "pipey" style Graham Irvine of Dunoon would be hard to match.


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Subject: RE: british chromatic BCC# button accordion
From: GUEST,Dazbo at home
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 02:16 PM

Just a thought, I know, but wouldn't it be logical to call it a CbCC#?

The C flat row is all the flat notes

The C row is all the natural notes

The C sharp row is all the sharp notes.

Now let's call a spade a CbCC# then


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