History - BBC's 'Singing Together'

Subject: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: IanC
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 08:40 AM

I tried this in FolkInfo, because they're doing a lot of work on "Singing Together". Not a great deal of luck so far, so I thought I'd try it here ...

Like quite a few people, I suppose, I think of "Singing Together" as being something associated with my childhood. Looking at the BBC website, I learn that the series is still going. What's more, I just bought a copy of Autumn 1948's Singing Together ... so it's been going rather longer than I had thought.

Does anybody know ... when it started, who came up with the idea, what significant stages the project has gone through and who presented it over the various decades.

Thanks for any info.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Irene Shettle
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 03:58 PM

Ian, I don't know who started it, or anything about the stages etc, but do remember William Appleby, whose name appears on the book of songs published under the title of Singing Together and was certainly obtainable three years ago. I've just googled his name, and found out that there is a music centre named after him in Doncaster, and there is information printed about him at www.doncastermusicservice.org.uk/dms.htm (sorry - no matter how many times I've tried I just don't seem to be able to negotiate the blue clicky thing!)

All I recall is fond memories of sitting down at school in the fifties and singing along to the programme. Thanks to you, I'm probably going to be googling for a bit longer tonight!! (:-)

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 04:16 PM

sorry about that over there Ian. I did post your question to the BBC board which I visit but so far nothing has turned up their either.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 04:20 PM

It was still going in the '70s which is when I remember them. I might even have one of their booklets somewhere. I remember learning 'Yellow Bird' and 'Jamaica Farewell' from it.

It may have been a different series, but the Schools radio used to do plays that you could get the booklets for, learn the songs via the radio and put on your own show at school. We did 'Alice in Wonderland' and I was narrator... I was always the narrator.

LTS

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 04:33 PM

Yellow Bird was page 4, Summer 76 Liz. Jamaica Farewell was summer 1974 page 2. I can cover some of it here but not all. The program is older than I realised (I'd have guessed at mid 50s) and still runs.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 04:37 PM

I can't find the CD but I think an effort made by Kernow John here at Mudcat does run earlier than that but I feel pretty well convinced not back as far as 1948.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Irene Shettle
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 07:33 PM

Had another look at the Doncaster Music Service website, and found out the following about William Appleby. He was a young teacher at Doncaster Grammar school when he was appointed as the first music organiser for the local education authority there in 1947. The site states that he was "a highly successful trainer of choirs (and) subsequently became nationally known through his work as a presenter of the BBC's Singing Together programme." It seems from the site that he was responsible for flourishing instrumental music in the area, and died in 1973. A music centre in Doncaster is currently named after him.

In my previous post I got the title of the book of songs wrong - it should have been "Sing Together". I'm still on the lookout for further information. Having looked at the folkinfo.org site I got a distinct blast from the past at the mention of other schooldays programmes like "Music and Movement" (I loathed that one .... music yes, movement no!)

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 07:37 PM

Oh no... Music and Movement... Being a daffodil to Grieg's wossname....

ARGHHH!!!

LTS (who never quite got over being told her bird was not graceful - I was being a baby bird learning to fly in the fast passages!)

LTS

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Irene Shettle
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 08:24 PM

Don't remember daffodils - do remember (and I wish I couldn't!) crawling around the floor to "Mars" from the Planet Suite, pretending to be some sort of creepy crawly - definitely NOT my forte......

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Mr Happy
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 09:41 PM

I started experiencing 'Signing Together' from 1955 to 1961- Ah!, what a joy!

Does anyone has copies of booklets from those years?

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Sooz
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 02:53 AM

There was another programme for younger children. I think it was called Rhythm and Melody. I remember being pleased when I graduated to Singing Together!

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: IanC
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 03:44 AM

"Singing Together" was fully titled "Singing Together: Rhythm & Melody".

Here's the 1948 Singing Together booklet.

:-)

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Jeanie
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 04:50 AM

Liz - the BBC are still broadcasting musical plays for schools (like the 'Alice in Wonderland' you mentioned) - and very good they are, too. I came across a wonderful version of 'Macbeth' not long ago when doing a day's supply teaching in a junior school - liked it so much, I ordered the book and CD for myself ! Each song is in a different style (jazz, rap, reggae, lament etc.) and as well as looking at different styles, they learn about sequences, minor keys, counter melody and so on - plus being introduced to the story and characters in a fun way. The two hired murderers sing a kind of punk song, like East End thugs, and the bit I was doing with them was Macbeth and his missus singing jazz with some improvised scat.

Children are still moving around school halls and classrooms, often to music, pretending to be people and things other than themselves - (I confess to being one of those who inflict this upon them ) - but it has got a lot less "twee" than it used to be. The trouble is, and always was, that unless the teacher is committed to what is happening, or if the teacher is embarrassed and feels it is an ordeal to make sounds and move about, the children will too - and their natural enjoyment goes out of the window. Hence all the cringing memories people have about these classes. If a junior school has a permanent member of staff who is committed to the subject and isn't afraid of music, movement and drama, they are very fortunate. It is so much luck of the draw.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 05:39 AM

I'm so glad that Limpits' school prefers to make their own music and has a very talented group of teachers to help them. Her school has 4 choirs, an orchestra, recorder groups, put on at least one music concert a year and a music/drama show a term. Not a 'Singing Together' booklet or 'music and movement' torture session to be seen!

Oh, and this is just a primary (nursery age to 11yrs) school, 3 choirs cover years 2-6 (6-11yrs) and the fourth is made up of teachers, parents and grandparents. Philip Glass and Salvador Dali would be proud of the orchestral arrangements created by the children themselves - last Monday's effort had 'Yellow Submarine' with whale noises and barking dogfish interludes.

LTS

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 06:49 AM

I suppose I should post what I've posted at folkinfo as part of trying to find a answer.

A couple of answers for you Ian from my limited range of pamphlets.

1967- Spring 68 Were produced by George Dixon.
Autumn 68 to the end of my collection (Summer 86) were produced by Douglas Coombes"
The last one I have wich credits William Appelby as broadcaster is Autumn 1970.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST, Hamish
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 06:51 AM

I'm with Liz on the "argh!" reaction. At this distance I can't exactly remember what the problem was, but it, The White Heather Club and Jimmy Shand contributed to my aversion to folk music which lasted until I discovered that it wasn't meant to be civilised. (Thank you Hamish Imlach!)

"One misty moisty morning, when cloudy was the weather, dah-de-dah an old man, clothed all in leather" always gave me the creeps. I imagined a leathery-skinned monster - before Dr. Who, mind you - a sort of humanoid woodlouse. (I'm almost getting a panic attack now!)

And music and movement, too. Surely designed by a sadist to punish the 90% of us who didn't have a clue about what dance a daffodil would do to Mussorgsky.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Jeanie
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 07:06 AM

I think the trouble with the old style "music and movement", whether it came from a particular broadcast or was devised by a teacher, was that the role-plays were taken in isolation and totally out of any context. In the context of a whole class devised drama story with movement, with the teacher taking on a role themselves as the mentor/facilitator, being a daffodil, a rat in a sewer, caterpillar, a row of teeth, a *whatever* becomes real and decidedly not a "sadistic" or "cringe-making" experience. As I said, the first person who has to totally suspend disbelief is the teacher. Then, and only then, can such lessons become magical and fun learning experiences.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 07:16 AM

Music and Movement:"Now children, get spaced out"! No wonder the sixties happened.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 09:24 AM

My major bugbear was that I had to interpret the music the way my teacher interpreted it... hence the comments about my baby bird not being graceful. I thought it sounded like a baby bird trying to flutter, when she thought it was an adult swooping and diving.... I never did fit into anyones' particular 'box'.... Some waltz to the rhythmn in their heads, others polka.

LTS

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Jeanie
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 10:52 AM

Yes - a teacher's words have incredible power to lift someone up or deflate them, don't they ? Thank goodness, teachers are taught to include a lot more self-evaluation nowadays: "How did you feel your scene went ?" "Is there anything you would have done differently ?" (opening for the teacher to make subtle suggestions here) and praise from the teacher and the rest of the class: "What did you especially like about this group's dance ?"

When watching mimes and "freeze frame pictures" (drama teacher's staple diet), I quickly learned, the hard way, not to go for the obvious interpretation and to keep my mouth shut until I found out what was occurring - eg. I have had Vikings who I thought were bandaging each other after the battle very indignantly tell me that of course not - they were giving each other tattoos. The indignation was genuine and totally justified - I had broken the spell of the world they had just created for themselves.

The worst thing a teacher ever said to me (and I can still feel the hurt to this day, like you and your bird dance, Liz) was after I had spent ages using every coloured pencil to draw a picture of Jesus wearing the brightest clothes imaginable. My teacher told me it couldn't possibly be Jesus, because he always wore white.

I hate to think how many times I may have unwittingly used the wrong words to a child at the wrong time. All a teacher can do is try to keep aware of the pitfalls of ill-chosen words, accentuate the positive, give genuine praise - and remember what it was like to be 7.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Jeanie
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 10:53 AM

Sorry for the thread creep, by the way :)

-jeanie

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 10:58 AM

MY teacher used to get upset when time came for us to pretend to be trains. We didn't go 'chuff-chuff' like a steam train. Being Londoners we went 'hooooomm' like the tube trains which were the only ones we'd seen.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Flamenco ted - can't log in
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 11:57 AM

eh by gum!!! Spring 1970 has a song called "Mango walk" and I can still remember the tune and half the words, but not what I did yesterday!!

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 12:51 PM

I'm curious how this all worked. Was the program piped into a classroom or auditorium once a week? If there were roughly 10 songs/book, were the programs ever repeated? Did everyone in England learn these wonderful songs in these great collections? How long was a teaching period? Was the song presented with an accompaniment? Was each student given a book to keep per term? Etc. Thanks for your input.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Cats
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 03:00 PM

If you did Singing Together like me, then we are all showing our age! I remember, in particular, 'Aunt Hessies White Horse' as being some kind of intro, and crying when we sang 'Shenandoah'. My headmistress was really worried about me... a song making someone cry, unheard of! I think I was about 7 at the time.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Cobble
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 03:08 PM

We used to have about 4 or 5 classes get together in the fiftys, to sing with the radio. AHHHH memorys.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: IanC
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 03:59 PM

Sheila

Before tape recorders were popular, we all sat cross-legged in front of the radio in the school hall and sang with it. Later, with tape recorders, it was obviously easier.

Each term there were 10 or 11 songs, which we learned. Some of them would repeat every few years, it seems, but it gave you a fairly large "vocabulary" of folk songs in common - as well as the ones you knew from other sources (like yer mum and dad etc).

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 04:34 PM

We had a big reel to reel that lived in the headmasters' office. He recorded the programme and then sent the R2R round with the 'Reel Monitor' and a large amount of booklets with the words.

LTS

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,bill
Date: 10 Apr 06 - 03:30 PM

I sang aunt hessies white horse 'oh have you seen aunt hessies horse.........don't you call him snowy...........does anyone know the full song. I would be grateful. thankyou

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Apr 06 - 04:25 PM

Just to let you know I am still inching my way along putting the booklets online over at Folkinfo. When I started I thought it might take a couple of years to load them up because of other commitments. That still looks likely; so far I've put 34 up (unless I've miscounted). But I've not seen Aunt Hessie and her horse yet that I remember.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Jane F
Date: 10 Apr 06 - 11:05 PM

I used to LOVE doing Singing Together in the 1970s. Hope to find some of the old songs on Folkinfo and bring back some memories!

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: weelittledrummer
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 01:33 AM

It was a well meaning attempt to widen our horizons, and maybe in some cases it did.

Certainly when you discovered Martin Carthy five years later, you had already come across some of his songs like High Germany in Singing Together. Mr Appleby must have been pretty well up on the folk scene for his time - acquainted as he seemed to be with Scots, Irish, English, Welsh, Jamaican and American folksongs.

The plummy accents singing the songs seemed to us very unhip, we were listening to Cliff Richard and Tommy Steele round that time in the 1950's. Still as Peggy Seeger said recently in a thread - in that period, people earnestly consulted her and Ewan as to how to make a start presenting traditional material - people just felt all at sea.

Its a big pity folksongs aren't presented to kids nowadays. One would have thought, now that we have so many different ethnic strands within our community, it could be a big unifying force. Mind you the folksingers entrusted with the job would need a passsion to communicate with children, rather than looking inwardly to some tradition that not too many people have had handed down to them.

Come to think of it - it wouldn't be all that bad an idea outside the classroom also.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 02:40 AM

What weelittledrummer said.
Whilst Singing Together was not the only source of Folk Music I came across in my formative years it was an important one.
I know more than one person who,whilst not a folkie,still retain affection for the songs they learnt that way.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: BusyBee Paul
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 04:05 AM

I'm sure we did a song "Calling all Martians to take a stand".

As was said earlier, I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday but think I can remember at least a couple of verses of this!.

And then there were the calypsos and what I still think of as traditional English folksongs - Johnny Todd, One misty moisty morning etc. I always enjoyed these sessions, but then I alsways enjoyed singing. Music and Movement was fine, compared to English Country Dancing - where the dancing was fine but the teacher was a racist wotsit. It's funny, having spoken to half a dozen old school pals from my primary school, the one thing we all remember is her rascist comments and actions in the class.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 01:16 AM

My friend and colleague Bob Webb has a pretty large collection of the Singing Together books ('pamphlets', we called them) and we were looking through them recently.
The memories, as they say, came flooding back when we came to songs like 'Riding On A Donkey', 'Dashing Away With A Smoothing Iron' and, especially, an extraordinary song called 'Old Zip Coon'.
'Old Zip Coon he played all day, until the neighbours ran away; he played all night by the light of the moon, but he wouldn't play anything but Old Zip Coon'. What was that all about?
Actually my primary education, in a little country school in Cheshire, had quite an element of folk tradition to it and perhaps it is no coincidence that I later went on to become one of the founders of Middlewich Folk & Boat Festival. As well as 'Singing Together' (and the dreaded 'Music & Movement')on the BBC Home Service we also had 'country dancing' to the accompaniment of ancient Jimmy Shand Records.Not only that, we also had our own Maypole, and I was a member of a small elite able to do 'plaiting' as well as ordinary dancing.
And, in an uncanny foreshadowing of 'Don't Sit On My Jimmy Shands', our Headmistress, Miss Mason, did exactly that and broke several of them.
Thanks for the memories, folks.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 02:54 AM

It may be you have some I don't, Dave. If so, I'd be glad of photocopies, scans or any other form of copy.

Here's my list:

Autumn: 60,65,66,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,77,78,84,85
Spring: 67,68,69,70,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,81,82,85,86
Summer: 61,67,68,70,71,75,75,76,79

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 02:55 AM

Typical. The first Summer 75 should be summer 74.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 03:43 AM

As it happens I'm at Bob's today (Wed 12th) so I'll have a look.

DGR

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: weelittledrummer
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 03:49 AM

In our school Park Junior in Boston, Lincs. Two classes came together. The programme was repeated in the week. cos we had the nature programme, and we sometimes caught the fag end of the repeat, and started singing spontaneously to it.

two classes came together. us and the B class.
for notes and a song(Grammar School Puppy Dog) about the class system in schools in those days see my website

http://bigalwhittle.co.uk/id4.html

The big old wooden radio was kept on a special high shelf (out of our reach) in the corner of the room. The teacher's pet was entrusted with the great honour of turning the radio on an d off every week, when the order came.

the pamphlets were given out at athe start of every singing lesson. the lessons weren't popular as we we squashed three in a desk that was designed for two..... someone always got introuble for pushing someone else so they landed on the floor. I remember also the smug smiles of satisfaction from some girls at being squashed in a desk next to lad that was generally fancied by the other girls. There were enough pamphlets for two between three - although when one or two kids were standing in the corner, for larking about and squabbling - you sometimes got your own book.

The worse was when you got stuck sitting next to slow reader, who tried following the words with his finger. Non readers were better than this as they tended not to give a shit, and let you have the book - however proximity to them frequently carried the risk of infestation. Also as the lesson came straight after playtime, you could be stuck next to some idiot who had been running round in the rain playing football, and he would be dripping all over you for half an hour. A footballl playing slow reader dripping all over the book, just about put the tin hat on it.

quite often, these were the kids from poorer backgrounds who ended up taking these booklets home. The teacher would be looking for some little present he could give the poorer kids for Christmas and he would give them last years book.

I wonder if these memories are shared by anyone else?

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Mo the caller
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 06:22 AM

I remember the big wooden radio being brought round to our class. And sometimes we were allowed to listen to the next programme too.
Some of the pamphlets had things to fill in but we couldn't as they were saving them for next year, this may have been the Nature Study programmes.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Mo the caller
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 06:35 AM

I have summer 61 (must havee been my little sister's last term at Junior school.
Also some Time and Tune from my cousin Spring 53,Summer 58, and a pink one with Yankee Doodle on p3.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,ruth fletcher
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 01:16 PM

I loved Singing Together. Attending, very unhappily, a prep school in the late fifties, the release of singing was wonderful. For some reason 'Westering Home' sticks in my mind.I also seem to remember someone called Gladys Whitred (or something similar) being associated with the programme.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 01:22 PM

On the Today programme (BBC Radio 4 5pm) they played a recording of Singing together using the Chorus of Brennan om the Moor !

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 02:20 PM

For Today read PM.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: danensis
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 04:17 PM

Well you've inspired me to dig out my stack of "Singing Together" booklets I inherited from my wife. Apart from Summer 1951, which is an oddity we found in a charity shop, I seem to have most of them from Autumn 1960 to Summer 1967 including a couple of duplicates.

There were three booklets a year for the spring, summer and autumn terms, and in autumn 1963 coloured covers appeared. The 1951 one has Rhythm & Melody on the cover, but it is not mentioned in the 1960s pamphlets.

John

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 05:02 PM

I've finished transcribed a lot of the "Singing Together" booklets over at Folkinfo ,which I mentioned I was busy with earlier in this thread.

I'd be happy to recieve scans or similar of any other booklets people have. PM me for the email address to send them to.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 05:04 PM

In answer to original post, by the way, they said on the radio today that it started in 1948, so there's a good chance the Autumn 1948 booklet of IanC's was the earliest issued.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: bubblyrat
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 06:47 PM

The arrival of the big wooden radio, considered modern at the time compared the those great big bakelite ones, must have heralded the arrival of electricity in my old primary school. I had to think about this when recalling the joys of Singing Together and Rythm and Melody (which I think included more classical music). Up until that point we had gas lamps, which the caretaker used to come round and turn on with a hook on the end of a long pole, and coke stoves which he came round and tipped fresh coke onto during the dark days of winter. This was in the fifties too! Yes - we did learn to write with black slates and chalk - wasn't it fun!!
Whoops - forgot to log him off and log me on - Anniecat x

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 11:17 AM

Didn't Willaim Cole have something to do with "Singing Together"?

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 07:04 PM

It's strange how the memory plays tricks. I listened to the 'PM'item on 'Singing Together' and was amazed to hear William Appleby's strong Yorkshire accent.
It all makes sense of course, as I believe Mr Appleby was a Yorkshire schoolteacher.
But I could have sworn that he had a hearty upper-class BBC type accent. Obviously not.
As I say, the memory plays tricks and I could be confusing Mr A with any number of 'received pronunciation' types which the BBC used to broadcast into our little country classroom all those years ago.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 09:25 PM

It's great to hear these reminiscences, I can smell the chalk dust and plasticene now!

It took 30 odd years to re-awaken my interest in folk music and when it did, I was blown away by the extent, variety and availability of it.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 05:07 AM

Limpit's class still sing a song called 'Mango Walk'.

The smell of plasticine reminds me of my fifth birthday, which was also my first day at school. I was dragged along by my mother who callously abandoned me at the front door, hauled into a classroom from which I could see my house and given a seat at the front next to the Romany girl no-one else would sit near. I was then coerced into coming to the teacher's desk, where she had 5 candles on a piece of hardboard that had plasticine blobs on it. Someone sang Happy Birthday and the teacher pulled my hair 5 times. All this before first playtime!

Is it any wonder I hated school from then on.

LTS

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Alun
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:00 PM

Excellent stuff on here - keep it going folks

I was at a tiny primary school in S Wales in the late 60s/early 70s and the school took in 'Singing Together' broadcasts as part of the curriculum.

No-one so far seems to have mentioned that at the end of the term, the show would encourage schools to let the kids vote for their favourite song, and then send in the votes cast for each song in the pamphlet. Our school always participated in this. As I recall we were allowed to vote for 3 songs.

The last 'Singing Together' of each term then involved a 'Pick of the Pops' or 'Eurovision Song Contest' style show with a rundown of the songs. The songs with the lowest votes were broadcast first, and with the tension mounting we then got to the winning song.

I've tried to work out which were the winning songs from the various terms, and I've come up with the list below. Someone with a better memory than me will hopefully correct me on any errors.

Spring 68 - Men Of Harlech (from personal experience I can advise listeners a lot of vote-rigging went on in Welsh schools. My lips are sealed though on the identity of the man responsible).

Summer 68 - the awesome 'Marianina'

Autumn 68 - Football Crazy

Spring 69 - Oh Marlborough's Gone To War Sir

Autumn 69 - Charlie Is My Darling ???

Spring 70 - Mango Walk or Old Zip Coon

Summer 70 - Linstead Market (overwhelming winner in our school, despite my attempts to get The Yellow Sheepskin as the winner)

Autumn 70 - The Twelve Days of Christmas or This Old Man

Summer 71 - The Meadowlands (a total shock winner as I recall)   

Hopefully someone has a better memory than me.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Jan
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 03:12 PM

Have just returned from a holiday in Switzerland and caught the boat from Weggis to Lucerne. The ancient cogs of my memory have been trying to remember the words of a song we sang in Singing together in the late 50s. Can anyone help,please?

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 03:29 PM

Guest, Jan - I think we need a bit more of a clue as to what the song was about. "Late 50s" isn't really sufficient.

Kitty

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Penny S.
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 03:54 PM

I think the Martians were in Time and Tune, which was for younger children, and was often of made up songs. Sometimes to existing tunes, as in "I see a little man standing in the wood" A dratted earworm.

Penny

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Betsy
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 06:20 PM

Hi Alun,
Marianina " come oh come and turn us into foam ....." won the vote around 1955 /6 I would have been about 8 or 9 years old.
Perhaps they relaunched or repeated the whole thing for a different "wave " of kids. Perhaps it was the first time the BBC fixed the voting Eh ?

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Splott Man
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 04:17 AM

I've still got some of the books filed away in my posterity/oblivion cupboard. I'll look them up.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Llanfair
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 04:30 AM

Oh, I am enjoying this thread!!! "Singing together" was always my favourite lesson. We'd go into the hall and sit cross legged on the floor, and Miss Prime would turn the radio on. I loved the songs, but it was 10 years later I discovered they were folk songs.
"The Keeper" sticks in my memory. Cleaned up for us children, though!!

I was at junior school from '53 to '59.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,edthefolkie
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 05:05 AM

This thread, combined with scanning in my 1957 & 1958 class 11 photos recently, has reduced me to a blubbering wreck.

You lot were LUCKY to 'ave a radio which could be carried around. Our school were so poor we only 'ad gret big wooden loudspeakers in each classroom and a wooden radio in't 'Ead's office. And when I started in t'infants in 1952 they still used SLATES. And you try telling the kids that terday, they'll laugh in yer face.

Seriously, the speakers didn't really matter as the Schools broadcasts were only on one station (anybody remember which? I can't)and there were no tape recorders available. So there must have been some sort of cunning plan as to who listened where, to what and when.

I just associate the whole Singing Together/Rhythm and Melody thing with sitting in the school hall instead of working.

Oh God, then there was Maypole dancing.........

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 06:25 AM

I have two "Singing Together" pamphlets which were my late father's (he was a primary school teacher) they are Autumn Term 1973 and Spring 1978, if they can add to the collection. How does one PM, I can't seem to manage it...

I was at the Abbey Primary School in St Albans from 1956-63 and remember Music and Movement, (having to be a daffodil to "Morning" from "Peer Gynt" and a clock to Rossini's "Thieving Magpie") Time and Tune, and Singing Together, as others do....I thoroughly enjoyed it. It was better than having to do "sums"....

---

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Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Anne Lister
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 09:08 AM

As to Weggis .. there was a song I remember which started "We are off to Weggis now" and then a nonsense line, supposedly yodelling. Would that be the one? I might have that in a Girl Guide songbook somewhere if so.

Anne

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: LindsayInWales
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 09:20 AM

thanks Joe I'm in!! (I was in before but have changed my ID now) - as to Weggis I have it in a music book if wanted. I also have it as a music-box tune in a little revolving sweet-dish brought back from Switzerland by my late Aunt in the 1950s!

Lindsay

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Jan
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 01:33 PM

Thanks for help with Weggis song. I now know it is known as Das Rigilied ( Rigi being the mountain above Weggis) and the 1st line in German is: Von Luzern auf Weggis zu....then ho-la-hi,etc. I am not sure how this translated-could be :From Lucerne to Weggis go...

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 02:30 PM

Guest Edthefolkie,

The schools programmes were on the BBC Home Service (renamed Radio 4 in 1967.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Penny S.
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 06:10 PM

The timetabling of radio and TV programs was a complex and secret art, especially in Kent. At half term, the BBC would broadcast repeats in successive weeks, so that whenever a school had its half term, they would not miss an episode. Except that Kent, possibly because of hopping or some such local variation, always had its half term in one of the non repeating weeks. What joy when tape recording became possible! Except for the poor teacher who had to ensure all the recording happened. I wonder what happened to our plug in timer.

Kent still runs out of synch with everyone else. Especially with the six term year scheme.

Penny

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 07:15 PM

My memory's far too hazy to be of much use on this thread, but I recall singing lustily, at least some from the BBC booklet, "What's in There? (Gold and money...)," "Charlie is me Darling," "Oh No John" (not the rude verses I'm sure!) and "Bonnie Dundee."   There was also a round that our teacher would torment us with by making a randomly-selected four of us sing it "solo," called something like "Morning is Come."   That's when I first learned the art of not getting volunteered by dint of avoiding eye contact. This was all around 1960-ish or before. Thanks for making me dredge my memory banks so pleasurably!

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 03:36 AM

A song we had to sing from that era, had a chorus "With her one eye on the pot and the other up the chimney with a Bow ,wow, wow,...."
it fascinated me, the storyline had me rivetted - Jeez ! they don't write em like that anymore.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: weelittledrummer
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 09:25 AM

yes I remember the Lucerne one - there was a picture of a man's head with one of those alpine hats, with a bit of rope round the brim, and a mountain in the background

From Lucerne to Weggis town
Hol da he! Hol da ho!
with no shoes or stockings on
Hol da he! da ho!

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 01:00 PM

Betsy - that was the Drummer and the Cook, I think? ("Pot" had a different meaning in those days!)

Kitty

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Fliss
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 04:50 PM

Brings back memories of primary school in Shrewsbury '54-'60. In the 3rd year juniors our singing teacher formed us into a little choir and trotted us round the church fetes and we sang all sorts of folk songs.

I taught infants in the early '70s and did Time & Tune with them. I have a collection of old booklets somewhere in the loft. I liked the term we did about snow and russian folk songs... something about The Great Bear...

Its really where my playing and singing started... entertaining children.
fliss

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Edmond
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 10:40 AM

I remember "Darby Kelly" and the "Uist Tramping Song" - that must habe been 1953 or 1954. This was my first introduction to "The Keeper" and "Sweet Nightingale".

I never realised until much later, when I heard Cyril Twwney singing "Sweet Nightingale" on some poxy TV programme, that it was a Folk Song.

It was always my ambition to record a disc of bawdry entitled "Songs Miss Pringle didn't teach us".

Chance'd be a fine thing . . .

Bryn Pugh

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,voxchops
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 02:11 PM

hello, I have just found this site after searching for my old books to find the lyrics for The Marigold "Twas east North East so near the line etc" I know I have them somewhere. Anyway I thought some of you might be interested that I have just recorded 3 songs: Kitty of Coleraine, Moon of Mamaku and Sleep my Little Baby, on my lullaby CD Lullaby Island. You can hear clips of the songs and get complete lyrics for those if you go to www.lullabyisland.com. My brother used to sing me to sleep with Kitty, i had no idea it too was a Singing Together song. My mum learn't The Marigold from me and want to sing it at her folk club in yorkshire. I loved it!!!

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 03:55 PM

Voxchops - what is this about your being sung to sleep with Kitty?

Edmond - thanks for confirming that there was a list of songs Miss Pringle never taught us! I think I heard once that Fred Hamer had made a recording of them.

Kitty

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: SussexCarole
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 06:41 PM

Magical memories of Singing Together (1950's) in our Victorian built primary school. The wireless was wheeled in on a trolley & ceremoniously plugged in. I've collected many books from Singing Together & Music & Movement. One of the first songs I remember singing was Donkey Riding.. no one ever thought to tell me when I was 10 that a donkey was a work engine......I always pictured a lion and a unicorn standing on the back of a donkey! We've just put Donkey Riding into our songs...shades of the past!

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:31 PM

Not Fred Hamer, but Frank Purslow and John Pearse. It appeared under several variant titles at different times, starting out as Rap A Tap Tap: English Folk Songs Miss Pringle Never Taught Us (Folklore Records, 1960); they later re-issued it as Bottoms Up: English Soak Songs for Fools. It was issued under license in the USA, imaginatively (and rather misleadingly, as the content was mild enough) re-titled Unexpurgated Songs of Erotica: Witty Ditties of Passion and Pleasure: A Naughty, Bawdy Songfest of English Erotica (!) Finally, Peter Kennedy put it out as one of his FolkTrax cassettes (later CDRs) as Bottoms Up: Folk Songs Miss Pringle Never Taught Us.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:58 PM

Thank you Malcolm for setting the record straight (as ever) - Kitty

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Edmond
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 05:02 AM

Thank you all for that - I thought my Miss Pringle shtik was original.

An example of the 'collective Folk memory' in action ?

I remember 'Donkey Riding', too. The primary school I attended - St Custard's, Cotton Lane, Withington - put on a concert for Coronation year. The childrens' choir sang 'Donkey Riding' first, and we were commanded to smile whilst singing it. Imagine the lyric being mangled by 40 -odd grimacing bratten.

'Donkey Riding'was followed by 'Greensleeves', that ghastly 'Alas my love' version, where we were exhorted to smile, but not as broadly as we smiled in 'Donkey Riding'. This isn't drift (at least I don't think so :-) - we learned 'Donkey Riding' from 'Singing Together'.

Bryn Pugh

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 05:32 AM

I'm with IanC, sitting in the school hall listening to the radio. And I remember Westering Home too. Good songs survive. I recall doing the barn dance, when there still was maypole dancing - this would be at (Old) Hartlepool around 1954, but the radio listening in the hall may have been a little later as well. I think the memory of Westering Home in a songbooklet comes from that (1956?) time.

We didn't do Music and Movement in those days, thank god. What a horribly awful pretentious prospect. If you want to teach dance, teach dance.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 09:43 AM

Re GUEST Jan and "Lucerne/Weggis"; the first line of the version used in the "Singing Together" booklet was

"From Lucerne to Weggis blue,
Hol-da-hi (or similar "yodel")
You may go without a shoe
(Yodelling sound again)

I liked the melody, but the awkwardness of the rhymes put me right off the song.

Among other winners were something about

"Antonio, Antonio, it's raining, it's raining again"

and another ending

"The shepherd whistled gaily and the dog WAGGED HIS TAIL!", the last words being shouted.

I think another winner was "Football Crazy" ("the football it has taken away the little bit of sense he had"), which was described as "Irish". Hmmmm. Even at the age of seven, I had the first dim beginnings of a distinction between genuine tradition and modern degeneracy.

In these first two cases, as in several others, it was pretty predictable which songs would be most popular.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Nymeria
Date: 09 Sep 07 - 04:37 PM

I'm desperately trying to find out the title to a song which came from either Time and Tune or Singing Together. The only words I recal are: 'when the crescent moon has a single star to guide her through the night' and 'we come, we come, we strange little people come'. It would have featured in one of the books sometime during the 70s. Many thanks to anyone who can help.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Ann-Marie
Date: 08 Dec 07 - 05:51 PM

Guest Jan - I have just been reading the thread about Singing Together, and saw your posting about the Swiss song you were trying to recall. It wasn't The Appenzoller Song by any chance, was it? My earliest recall of exposure to yodelling is probably this song, c 1976-77, but I understand that Singing Together had some 'favourites' that would crop up repeatedly over the years.
The Lincolnshire Poacher was one of my particular favourites

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Les Hutch
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 02:23 AM

Does anyone have any recollection of a late 70's possibly early 80's "Singing Together" with a song titled "Squeaker and Coe" I think it was about two squirells? Any further info would be very welcome.

Regards to all on this most excellent discussion...oh, the memories

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Vic Smith
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 09:52 AM

When my family moved to England when I was ten, my first teacher was Doris Irene Ball - later to become my mother-in-law and as fine a woman as you could ever hope to meet.
She was a fine singer and pianist and she used the Singing Together booklets in her music lessons though I don't remember listening to the programmes. Mind you, such was her musicality that she would not have needed them.

She was an inspired teacher of many things, music in particular, and I am sure that she helped to fire my life-long passion for traditional song. Her husband, Ernie, later in life, made a hard binding of the Singing Together booklets that were still hanging around their house. As far as I remember, they were in the piano stool. This has now been passed on to Tina and I. They seem to be rather earlier than a lot of the ones mentioned in this thread and on the folkinfo website

The ones in the binding are
Summer 54
Spring 56
Autumn 56
Spring 57
Summer 57
Autumn 57
Spring 58
Summer 58

I suppose I'll have to get on to folkinfo with the contents of these as they don't seem to have them listed

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,scott blunt
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 10:18 PM

Dear Nymeria, you asked about a song starting with 'when the crscent moon....' Its called the Strange Little People and its from the Time and Tune cantata called Robin Ddu.
I have loads of Time and Tune, Singing Together, Music Workshop pamphlets and some recordings too ( I sang on the programmes), is there anyone who has recordings of Time and Tune, Singing Together, from 1971-1986? Im also looking for 1974 Twigwidge pamphlets and recordings, can anyone help please?
Scott

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Ralph Bacon MBE
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 01:26 PM

I sang in the choir that performed for the Singing Together broadcasts. In 1947 as a Doncaster Grammar boy of 13, I took part in a pilot recording to see how the programe would be received in schools. From about 1949 three out of 4 programmes were live form London. The odd one was recorded in Leeds on a Saturday afternoon in order that William, Appleby could go into a school on the following Monday morning in order to observe reaction.A special choir,the Danensian Singers made up of girls from Doncaster High School and boys from DGS, sang in all these recordings. I left in 1951 but on my return to teaching in Doncaster in 1957 I was in a second group, the New Danensian Singers, mainly made up of teachers and their wives or husbands plus a doctor and solicitor. The same pattern of monthly recordings followed but they were then done in the Library of DGS. On many occassions they were joined by a choir of boys from the school.
Another of the producers was Gordon Langford but I cannot remember the names of any others.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,fogie
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 06:15 AM

I remember I think from about 1958 - it was more important than I gave it credit for - anyone remember -as I do vividly
A lawyer he rode out one day all for to take his pleasure
Strawberry Fair
In Amsterdam there lived a maid (I vaguely remember the teacher trying to play the words down)
The mermaid ( and 3x round went our gallant ship)

It would be on my list of books to buy if the BBC brought out a collection. Do you remember the drawings that accompanied the words?

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Nymeria
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 05:30 PM

Dear Scott (Blunt)
Thanks for your reply which I've only just got around to reading.
It's given me more to go on now :)

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,flotsamsky
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 07:21 AM

I remember "Old Zip Coon". Times were certainly different then..I have an old 78 c.1916 of Harry C. Brown singing the same tune but with words that I can't repeat here.
Aunt Hessie's White Horse was in Rhythm and Melody I think and was included as an example of syncopation (much was made of this). I think the words may have gone SOMETHING like this:

Can't you see Aunt Hessie's White Horse
Aunt Hessie's White Horse
Aunt Hessie's White Horse
Why don't you ride Aunt Hessie's White Horse
And gee up a trot for me.
Don't you call him slow
Aunt Hessie will make him go
He'll gallop along so fine
He'll make the whole world mine.

Oh..(once more with feeling).

and from Time and Tune

I'm from our village, our village
I'm my father's son (bis)

Over there three houses fine
When I've bought them they'll be mine

I'm from our village, our village
I'm my father's son.

(Time and Tune was for the youngest listeners who might have had trouble reading the word "rhythm")

I also remember Patapan which I was forced to whistle in front of the class.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Peter Adamson
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 04:03 AM

Can anyone here tell me when Schubert's song 'A Son of the Muses' (in English) appeared in Singing Together? I was quite entranced by the dramatic key modulations between E major and A flat major.

I know that it was some time during the school year 1956-1957, but I'd like to know which term it was.

As an aside, my father (George Adamson) illustrated one of these booklets (?1959, I think).

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Charles Cooke
Date: 09 May 08 - 05:12 AM

i was a primary school, pupil in Doncaster in the 1960s+ and listened to Singing Together at 11.00 on   Monday morning. i loved it. My elder brother was for a time in the choir that recorded the programmes and i joined a spin off "The Danensian Choir" as soon as i was old enough. The Choir was formed by William "Pip" Appleby, who was Doncaster Schools Music Co-ordinator and Organist at the Parish Church. I knew him well and grew up in the Choir to be one of his "Elder and betters". he retired in about 1971 and died not long afterwards. i still have a little thank you present he gave me for looking after younger boys in the choir on one of our trips to Ely cathedral.
An earlier poster on this thread, Ralph Bacon, who was also in the recording Choir, was my Form master at the Grammar School.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 09:41 PM

Looking for BBC Schools Time and Tune Twigwidge programmes. Aut 1974
Can anyone help?
email [e-mail]

Thank you
Scott

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Midzone
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 10:53 AM

I've managed to sort through my collection of radio broadcasts from my teaching days - I have the following:

I have ALL Singing Together Broadcasts from Autumn Term 1984 to Summer 1991.

I also have separate Singing Together Broadcasts from:

Spring Term 1977 –Programme 20 (Requests)

Autumn Term 1983 – Broadcast 9 - featuring Tinga Layo

Spring 1983 – Broadcasts 19 & 20 - Featuring Casey Jones

Summer 1984 – Broadcast 24 - Featuring Jamaica Farewell

In addition I have the following:

All Time and Tune Broadcasts from Autumn Term 1984 – Summer 1991

The Song Tree – All Broadcasts from Autumn 1984 – Summer 1988

Music Workshop:

1981 – Will Wanderers Win? – All 10 Broadcasts
1989 – The Enchanted Horse – All 6 Broadcasts
1987 – The Man in the White Hat – All 6 Broadcasts
1989 – Aladdin – All 10 Broadcasts
1989 – Pimlico Drudge – Various Broadcasts
1986 – Pipers Mountain – All 10 Broadcasts
1987 – Up the Beanstalk – All 10 Broadcasts
1988 – Bowter Merryweather – Various Broadcasts
1986 – An Odd Odyssey – Various Broadcasts
1986 – Cinderella – All 10 Broadcasts
1985 – Ol Brer Rabbit Again – Various Broadcasts


Music Makers:

Rumpelstiltskin – All 10 Broadcasts
Pedro's Revenge – All 10 Broadcasts
The Saga of Erik Nobeard – All 10 Broadcasts
The Horrors – All 10 Broadcasts
The Park Keeper – Various Broadcasts

I also have various other snippets of programmes including Music Workshop – Return to BadlyDreamt

Various Broadcast of Country Dancing.

The majority of the broadcasts are still in excellent quality.

I was thinking of uploading some snippets to a website - would anyone be interested in hearing some of the old broadcasts?


Steve

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 03:31 PM

A Friday treat! Some Singing Together Memories for you from across the years.

Something from the master William Appleby - then a touch of Casey Jones, The Wreck of the Sloop John B, Waltzing Matilda and The Yellow Rose of Texas.

Apologies for the audio quality - the bit rate for uploading was heavily compressed - all snippets apart from William Appleby are taken from my own collection of broadcasts where the quality is still excellent after all the years :)

Link below - just copy and paste into browser.

http://w1.uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1221771042&/Singing Together Trip (2).mp3


Steve

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,cardboard cutout
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:04 PM

Guest "Midzone", the really iconic schools' music programme from the mid 1980s was on television - "Music Time". the one with the listening gnome, and Jonathan Cohen and I can't remember the other male and the female presenter. Do have or remember any of those?

Singing Together? Hey-day for me was round about spring term 1962 ("Boney was a warrior", "The Golden Vanity", and "Robin Adair")!

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Midzone
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:27 PM

Music Time - Ah Yes!

Originally Presented in black and white by Ian Humphris and Mari Griffith.

Then Kathryn Harries and Peter Coombe took over around 1977 in colour.

In the 80's Jonathon Cohen and Helen Speirs were the hosts.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,cardboard cutout
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 11:53 AM

But wasn't there another male presenter, besides Jonathan Cohen? My children would probably remember.

I think these schools music programmes have had quite a formative influence on their audience, down the decades.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Nymeria
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:49 PM

For the person looking for Time and Tune 'Twigwidge'. It's for sale on Ebay at the moment.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 09:38 AM

Just found a copy of Autumn 1961 on a second-hand book stall. Cost me 50p!

Saucy Sailor
Dashing Away with the Smoothing Iron
Fisherman's Night Song
This Old Man
Aiken Drum
The Fox and the Hare (Icelandic song)
On This Day (Welsh song)
The Holly and the Ivy
The Holy Son
Down in yon Forest
Wassail Song
Rejoice and Be Merry

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 09:48 AM

Never done this before, so

* 100 *

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,John from Elsie`s Band
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 11:27 AM

I found ,in a Norwich bookshop, a copy of "The Daily Express" Community Songbook published in 1927. Rather than try to explain it let me give you the foreword.

    "On the night of November 20th, 1926 ten thousand people assembled in the Albert Hall to launch "The Daily Express Community Singing Movement.
    There were a few minutes of shyness and timidity. Then suddenly, the spirit of song took complete command of the enormous audience. The chorus of "John Peel" swelled and volleyed round the great hall, and in that moment was born the astounding social movement that has since swept over the country like a prairie fire.
    The story of delight and inspiration of Community Singing flashed from suburb to suburb, from town to town. Wireless had already brought the cheeriness and friendliness of it all to millions of listeners who caught the infection as they sat at their receiving sets.
    From north, south, east and west there poured in requests that other centres should be given the opportunity of enjoying at first hand the wonderful thing that London had so successfully inaugurated.
      It was not a question of capturing communities, they had capitulated joyously and eagerly. Within a month the people of the Midlands were singing as they had never sung before. Wales, with her traditional genius for song, both found and gave inspiration in full measure. Northern cities and southern towns joined in the movement with irresistible enthusiasm.
    Then came another and more dramatic development. The packed grounds of famous football clubswere turned into gigantic concert centres. Twenty, thirty, forty, fifty thousand men and women provided unforgettable spectacles as they stood in wintry sunshine or biting wind to sing sea shanties, old well known choruses and the National Anthem.
    Villages and hamlets began to organise their own Community Singing. Churches, clubs, instsitutes, workshops, schools - practically every place where men and women gather - joined in.
      Three months saw Great Britain turned into a land of song, and the whole country in the grip of a new force the social consequence of which, even now, are incalculable."

The book contains in excess of 200 songs, trad., shanties, childrens songs, etc., every one relevant to the Mudcat site.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: weelittledrummer
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:34 PM

Thankyou John. One sensed there was SOMETHING - some popularising agent.

Something between the gypsy's singing songs in caravans to the Hammonds, and Ewan and Bert lloyd and the skiffle cellars.

A sort of cultural Piltdown man of folksong - something I and my family could relate to. because god knows my parents couldn't get a handle on folksong as it appeared in the 1960's - particularly the folksong of their own country.

the disocciation of sensibility suffered by the English from their own folksongs, which for example Show of hands write about in their song, Roots - must have some sensible explanantion. And you don't hear much attempt to understand the phenomenon on Mudcat - only sneering at the majority of the population, who find that they are more sympatico with Americanana.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:25 PM

The singing of 'Abide with Me' on FA Cup Final day is an echo from the past.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Snuffy
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 05:19 AM

I remember the community singing at the Cup Final - "the next song is number 16 on your Daily Express songsheet." They must have given one out to everybody as they entered.

It lasted into the 60s I think but people by then wanted to do their own thing and it succumbed to the D-I-Y efforts like Spurs go marching on and E-I-Addio

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 06:29 AM

The Daily Express also sponsored the 'Empire Day' festival in Hyde Park. You'd see Sir Edward Elgar or Sir Malcolm Sargent conducting the massed bands of the Coldstream, Irish and Welsh Guards whilst the people sang "genuine folk-songs, sea shanties, hymns, music-hall songs, American minstrel songs, anything with a catchy tune and simple chorus."

It all went pear-shaped in 1932 when thousands gate-crashed the event and it had to be cancelled. It was never resurrected.

Apparently, some of the football ground singing was recorded on vinyl.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,John from Elsie`s Band
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 06:31 AM

Unfortunately Snuffy, nowadays some of the renditions to be heard at matches are certainly not the material to be aired here. It`s such a shame when innocent activities go the way of much we see about us. Public vulgarity, coarseness, insulting and derogatory language.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 05:39 PM

I would love to get hold of a copy of "Will Wanderers win?" if this is the same one I'm thinking of, I did it at school. some of the songs I remember were: The Manager's Lament, the Saboteurs Song. Lyrics to one of them went " ihave studied many a year, in great circumstances drear, and the secrets of the mystic east are mine" "how they work I've no idea, but they do that much is clear, pay attention and my method I'll outline" I have not seen this book since I was about ten or eleven years old, 1982 or 1983ish, but the lyrics and melody will stick in my mind forever, it drives me mad that I often get these songs in my head, but don't seem to have any reference point up until seeing this on the internet. Please put me out of my misery and till me I'm not imagining this! I also remember "The Bearded Bride" and "Sir Spence and a Dragon Called Horace"

Thank you
Rachel

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 05:42 PM

Sorry my e-mail address is [e-mail]

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 05:45 PM

Please post a reply to [e-mail], thanks so much

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 08 - 04:16 PM

I too remember so many of the 'Will Wanderers Win?' songs!! ("Saturday afternoons we go to the game..."etc!) and even have the percussion parts in my head. They must have been so catchy to last in memory for this long eh? The other one I can recite nearly all of was the waxworks one - 'Kings and Things'. Also remember doing 'Mrs Noah's Missing' and 'The Magic Tinderbox'.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 23 Nov 08 - 04:29 PM

Rachel Have you searched digitrad for will wanderers and for the songs you mentioned above?

For your own protection, you really shouldn't post your email anywhere publicly, even on Mudcat.

Better to join the Mudcat. Then you can PM members your email if they need to share stuff with you. And you can track your questions and the replies.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Midzone
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 06:43 PM

I did some sorting through boxes in the loft the other day and managed to find all 10 broadcasts of Will Wanderers Win - I might upload something for Rachel over the weekend :)

I also found a copies of two Singing Together Broadcasts in full they are:

Spring Term 1977 - Request Programme featuring performances of:

Streets of Laredo
Leaving of Liverpool
I Wander
Kitty of Coleraine
Cosher Bailey
Pay Me My Money Down


Summer Term 1979 - Request Programme featuring performances of:

La Pique
The Crocodile
Pretty Penya

To name but a few!

I am interested in increasing the Singing Together broadcasts I have so if you have from the seventies or early eighties in particular please let me know - willing to swap/copy material.


Steve

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Weasel
Date: 30 Dec 08 - 07:10 PM

Reading through the posts I spotted a reference to the cantata Robin Ddu.

If I remember correctly, the lyrics to this (and to a lot of other songs in the series) were written by Emlyn Edwards who was a lecturer at Bretton Hall College at the time.

He was an interesting chap who, it is said, disappeared from college one day, never to be seen there again. Stories of his lectures are legion and who knows, some of them may be true.

As a student I re-set one of the songs from Robin Ddu which began "My home is in a valley green".

I remember Em telling us the tale of how moved he had been when visiting a school in some industrial area on hearing a class singing this particular song (not my version I should add).

Cheers,

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,donQ
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 01:18 PM

Hi GuestMidzone,

Don't know if you will get this message, but I am trying to get a copy of the music from the Music Workshop programme Cinderella from 1986. Our school was hoping to do the play.

Hoping you or someone can help.

Thanks,

don

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Penny S.
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 01:42 PM

John - our family have a copy of the Daily Express book which we have had time out of mind. Odd, since no-one in the family was of an Express reading type. We later acquired a copy of the News Chronicle similar book. There are subtle differences. I might analyse them sometime. One that sticks in my mind is that the NC has more spirituals, and the DE more plantation songs in inappropriate "dialect".

Midzone - do you by any chance have the final performance version of the Odd Odyssey? I thought I had squirrelled it away from the throwers outers at school, but it has gone. I tried to get a script from the Beeb, but they have regarded these things as ephemeral, and not worth keeping. They were so clever that it seems a great shame for them to be lost.

Penny

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,John
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 05:28 AM

Hi Steve,
I would be extremely interested in hearing Pimlico Drudge again. I don't suppose anybody out there has the illustrated music book - I'd be prepared to pay a fair price.
Regards,
John Campbell

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Gerry Ogilvie
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 06:57 AM

Does anyone remember "Twanky Dillo" ? or "Lisa Llan" (a welsh folk song) I always thought I would love to meet Lisa Llan as she seemed a lovely gentle girl and beautiful too.
And remember "Old Farmer Buck" .........does anyone have any favourites ?

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Scott
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 05:05 PM

Hi Penny, about the script for an Odd Odyssey, I contacted Peter Hutchings on several occasions and he was delighted to help! Im sure he would have the script for it. I know he also has copies of the final broadcast of most, if not all,of the Music Workshop and Music Makers progs on tape. he has made copies for me several times!

Scott

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 05:21 PM

Over at folkinfo we have "Twankydillo", "Lisa llan" and "Old Farmer Buck", Gerry. We have now put up all the issues we have, though there are still the earliest and latest issues missing. See the Singing Together Master Index for what we have. All additions welcome.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 05:25 PM

I've just seen a post way back in Jan 08 by Vic Smith with some of the issues we are missing. Vic, if you are there, please PM me if you still have them.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Midzone
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 12:01 PM

Hi

Sorry for not being around for a few weeks bit of a manic month or so.

The sorting of my old broadcasts continues and is certainly work in progress - I've managed to find several bundles of pamphlets and teachers notes from various music broadcast from over the years - so Don I will have a closer look for the Piano Score for Cinderella.

As for Pimlico Drudge - haven't come across any of those broadcasts 'yet' but never say never :)

Still on the look out for Singing Together broadcasts from across the years particularly the seventies and early eighties.

If you can help please email me direct - [e-mail]

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,jorra
Date: 18 Mar 09 - 10:24 PM

I have just stumbled across this thread. What a treat. We were listening to a record of Vaughan Williams' "The Bees" and I said..doesn't this remind you of..what was that music in schools program called that we all had in the primary school? I dredged in my memory and came up with "Mr. Appleby at the piano". Then I had to Google it to see whether there was anything about the BBC's schools music programs. And bingo..there you all are, with my memories! We both remember..the radio on a high shelf above the teacher's desk in the corner at the front of the room. The pamphlets. I remember a bunch of the songs still...and sometimes the songs from new-to-me folk bands rekindle memories. "Soldier Soldier won't you marry me?" "The Mermaid". SOmething about a valley. I now realise that many of those songs were censored...the verses about Polly's apron hanging down low, or Polly finally giving in to the soldier's charms and going into the sentry box and wrapping herself in his cloak, and then...and then the 9 month consequences...all deleted! But I remember enjoying these lessons hugely. I didn't even mind the Music and Movement in the gym. I try not to be a crusty middle aged grump, but I do wonder whether we play down to children a bit these days. We did Maypole dances for May Day and we all did the plaiting...in the INFANTS' school. I have pictures! 1955. East Sussex. I remember learning the Valeta, and the Sir Roger De Coverley, and looking back I think how on earth did the teachers get all of us to do that. We had over 40 to a class, as well. And I don't remember noise in the Singing Together classes, until we were older. I think that my sense of the importance of these is heightened because we have lived in the US for over 20 years, and we raised our two children here...quite bereft of this casually acquired background of shared songs and harmonies. (Americans don't even sing nursery rhymes that aren't commercial.) I can go to the piano and bang out a tune to sound like any of the styles of English folksongs, and I'm sure it's because our neurones ended up being hardwired to Pretty Polly going for a soldier to meet her love, or The Ash Grove, while our children are primed for jazz chords and rock. One last thing. What was the lady's name who did the Music and Movement? Irene something? Ilene?

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 19 Mar 09 - 06:21 AM

You're right about playing down to children and they are worse off because of it. They say it's 'progress' and 'people have greater expectations' but kids have lost connectivity with nature, the land and culture! This is why the world of tradional music, song and dance is so vital.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,drivers
Date: 20 Mar 09 - 06:24 AM

I only remember Time and Tune, and I don't have any of the books, but the Martians taking a stand were definitely Zartians

Calling all Zartians to take a stand
Earthmen invaders approach our land
Up and attack before they draw near us
We are all set and our spaceships manned

I have a wonderful memory for ancient things!

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Scott
Date: 20 Mar 09 - 10:00 PM

Hi, I notice you say you have recordings of various Singing Togethers and Music Workshops. I still work as a music teacher in primaries and would be hugely keen to acquire copies if at all possible of some of these broadcasts, especially Music Makers - The Park Keeper. I've got a few radio programmes from the 80s (you've probably got most of them) and lots of schools TV programmes from the 70s and 80s, especially programmes like Music Time. Any chance of contacting me at [e-mail]
so we could work something out. If anyone else can help with these types of radio programmes from the 80s, I'd really appreciate if you could get in touch too. Many thanks in advance

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Jim Ritchie
Date: 22 Mar 09 - 12:40 PM

I was quite excited to find these posts mentioning Music Workshop. I used the programmes quite a lot and kept personal copies of most of the earlier ones I worked on. I have also made scans of many of the booklets, teachers' books and acting scripts that went along with them. These are in pdf format if anyone wants them. I would love to get my hands on mp3 copies of the actual radio programmes. [e-mail]

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Mar 09 - 12:04 PM

I've still got a copy of a Singing Together booklet from the summer term 1947. "Broadcasts to Schools - provided by the BBC for the Central Council for Schools Broadcasting.

Contents:

"I saw three ships a-sailing" - welsh folk-song (St Athan) arranged and translated by Grace Williams
"The Jolly Carter" - folk-song from Suffolk, collected and arranged by E.J.Moeran
"Soldier Soldier" - Appalachian folk-song, collected and arranged by Cecil J.Sharp
"Ca' the ewes" - lowland Scots traditional melody, words by Robert Burns
"Whip Jamboree" - Somerset folk-song, collected and arranged by Cecil J. Sharp
"Silver and Gold" - music by Schubert, English words by Albert G.Latham
"Meg Merrilies" - music by Robin Milford, words by John Keats
"The Drummer Boy" - French folk-song, arranged and translated by Herbert Wiseman, English version by John Wishart
"Lord Willoughby" - Tudor ballad
"Contentment" - music by Mozart, English words by Rev.J Troutbeck
"Annie Laurie" - Lowland Scots traditional song
"Dear Lord and Father" - music by Hubert Parry, words by J.G.Whittier
"The Mocking Bird" - Appalachian song, collected by Cecil Sharp, piano accompaniment by Imogen Holst
"My Johnny was a shoemaker" - English traditional song from Northumberland
"Annie the Miller's Daughter" - Slovak folk-song fro the collection of Jan Malat. English paraphrase by Anna Mathewson
"Dance Song" - Portuguese folk-song, collected and arranged by Rodney Gallop
"The Feng-Yang Drum" - Chinese folk-song, collected by Dr Tz-Zeung Koo, and arranged by Reginald Redman. English words by Irene Gass
"The cockle gatherer" - Hebridean folk-song, arranged by M.Kennedy Fraser
"The Musician" - French folk-song, words paraphrased by John Horton
"My Horses Ain't Hungry" - Kentucky song, collected and arranged by John Jacob Niles

And all for sixpence, words and music.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: IanC
Date: 23 Mar 09 - 12:16 PM

Thanks Kevin ... that's the earliest I've seen yet!

:-)

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,rosiet
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:01 PM

We are the masters of all the sky
Out into space let our rockets fly!

As you come nearer, into our orbit,
Earthmen invaders, prepare to die!

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Roy
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 10:37 AM

Ah yes I remember this little gem from my primary school days broadcast on a Friday afternoons back in 1982-84, or we would at least listen to them on a Friday afternoon after going to the local swimming baths for our weekly swimming lesson. I can only recall listening to two series of it and can see the paper booklets we used to sing from in my minds eye like it was yesterday.
Like many others, titles and snatches of the songs stick in my mind or haunt me to this day. Here's a few from memory:

Patrick on the railroad
A frog he would a wooing go
Bold Gendarmes
Casy Jones
Bill Bones and his faithful cat(?)
Soldier Soldier won't you marry me?

Yes those were high tech days at school VCR's were the size of a breeze block and usually were the target of a break in during the school holidays. A mono radio/casette recorder player would provide the class with audio entertainment and every piece of electrical equipment deemed valuable by the staff was daubed with lemon coloured emulsion for identification purposes. LOL

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 03 Jun 09 - 10:57 AM

In the Special School in Leicester I worked at, Singing together was a regular, with the deputy head on the piano, the rest of us got a free lesson, bless you Dereck. Circa 1980 a christmas favourite was

Wrapped in swaddling clothes, the baby's lying
In his mother's arms, there'll be no crying
Shepherd's from afar, they do come [nigh?] him
Rocky Road-um, heyyy, a Rocky Road-um.

Rocky Rocky Road, a Rocky Road-um
Rocky Rocky Road, a Rocky Road-um
Rocky Rocky Road, a Rocky Road-um
Rocky Road-um, heyyy, a Rocky Road-um.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 04:52 PM

Gossip Joan - why on earth did this come into my mind today?

Do they call them 'ear-worms' now?

Whatever, i couldn't shake it off so I Googled her! And here we are! Yes!! The big speaker in the hall and all sitting cross-legged until we had to stand up to sing! And Mr Appleby on the piano I now see - I knew it was Mr someone but my neurones didn't fire bright enough. But I do remember these interludes so well. And then on to the nature walks and the pond-dipping and the poetry and the art in the afternoon. Where has it all gone? SATS???!! Yechhh!!! Back in the 1950s, that was what schooling was all about - oh deeeear, am I a grumby old 'person'.

Good evening Gossip Joan - I guess you had more fun at school than we do these days! But I guess you'd like Twitter??

Cheers

Dave J

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Chris
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 09:02 AM

At school in '82, our class did a (recorded using reel to reel) Singing Together programme. I remember the (first?) song that began "My father bought at great expense...", but can anyone recall a song called Miggaldy Maggaldy? I believe it was the same set, and that is from Autumn '73 (curiously the time when myself & my school year were born)

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Croaker
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 11:08 AM

Hi,
I was just wondering if you could possibly tell me the songs that were in the autumn 1983 singing together booklet please as I cannot obtain a booklet and I have some copies of the singing together but not many.Any help you could give I would be most grateful.Many thanks
                         Kind regards
                            Gwen

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 11:35 AM

As it happens, 1983 is one of the years we are missing at Folkinfo. Sorry I can't help.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 12:30 PM

Clearin up a bit in my stock room I have three 'Singing Together's' non sequential and all from 1970 to 73 (I'm relying on memory not being in my classroom currently. Anyone want's them let me know. They certainly bring back memories and beg the question as to when many of us learned what a folk song was.
Paul

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 12:34 PM

If there are some of the missing ones from those listed at that folkinfo page (in the post just above yours), I'd certainly be interested.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Willa
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:30 PM

Just bought a copy of 'Songs for Singing Together' Pupil's Book BBC Publications 1974 for 39p in a local charity shop!Back cover reads 'All the songs have been taken from recent programmes of 'Singing Together.....
Each term pupils from all around the British Isles send in their votes for their favourite songs and this volume contains a selection of the most popular.'

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 12:28 PM

DMcG I'll check them out tomorrow
Paul

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 07:16 AM

Does anyone know where I can get hold of the wonderful production "Sir Spence and a Dragon called Horace" which my class performed at school in (I think) the early 1980's? Many of its songs have been stuck in my head for nearly 30 years and I am now singing them to my children who want to know more! All suggestions welcome please.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,margaret in Chile
Date: 09 Jan 10 - 01:09 PM

It's a hot summer afternoon here and I have been humming 'Have not you heard my Lady' all morning. In my search for the words and music I came across this thread and what a delight to read the comments. I remember when Singing Together began it was a huge innovation. It was I believe 1948 and we'd never had a radio in the classroom before. What fun it all was.   I have to concur with the writers who feel the programme gave them a lasting interest in folk music ... it certainly did for me. And your comments about your classrooms - oh my the years float away and I'm back in Scotland!   Thank you so much everyone for sharing your memories.   Margaret

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: gnomad
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:03 AM

I confess to having also been thoroughly influenced by these programmes, including the stack of several previous year collections which made up the textbooks for school music lessons.

Just for Guest Margaret in Chile, the lyrics she was hunting can be found here. Stay a while longer, there's lots to enjoy here.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 09:21 AM

Did You Not Hear My Lady? is actually entitled Silent Worship and is an aria from the G F Handel opera Tolomeo. The most beautiful version I have ever heard was arranged and recorded by Barry Dransfield on Unruly.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Adam Carew
Date: 16 Feb 10 - 07:16 PM

What a thread to stumble over! Too many shared memories here, but I might add that I never quite fell for William Appleby's programme after he did "Football Crazy" but the words were different from the song sung by Robin Hall and Jim MacGregor. I sensed even then that this was kid's stuff, and for a 10 year old at the end of the swinging sixties that was not cool.

I would love to see a list o hte songs. Someone said "Kernow John" is producing a CD. If you read this, KJ, please let me know how to get hold of it.

PS Like someone else I (mis)remembered Wm Appleby's booming "Hello Schools!" coming out of the speaker with rather a plummy accent, so hearing a soft but definite Doncaster accent a few moments ago came as a surprise; but perhaps for people in Chester, Doncaster was rather posh - it's all relative you know...

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Adam Carew again
Date: 16 Feb 10 - 07:38 PM

It's probably bad form to reply to your own posts, but I have now come across a list of the songs here, and anyone following my footsteps in the future might like to know:

http://www.folkinfo.org/forum/topic.php?topicid=1188

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Cath
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 06:56 PM

@drivers, @rosiet Great to track down others who remember the Zartians! From 1965ish??

Calling all Zartians to take a stand
Earthmen invaders approach our land
Come and attack and make them draw back
We are all set and our spaceships manned

[I'd forgotten this last line...]

And from the same time - I used to love singing 'Streets of Laredo' - I always thought it was most sad...

Cath

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Robert
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 03:13 PM

I've just noticed that someone is selling Singing Together / Time & Tune, Music Workshop, Music Time pamphlets and teachers notes on e-bay.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 05:27 PM

On a point of information Borchester, the words of "Silent Worship" appear to have been written by Sir Arthur Somervell but were certainly set to his adaptation of the aria by Handel.

I knew the song from primary school and the BBC, and I bet Barry Dransfield did too - I was so blown away by his rendering on "Unruly" a couple of years ago that I did a bit of Googling and found at least some of the song's origins. Obviously the lyric is meant to evoke the 18th century but to me it's redolent of the 1890s/early 1900s - I can imagine Walter Crane or Arthur Rackham illustrating it.

It's very true, as several people said, that unfortunately children don't casually acquire gems like these any more - I believe it was called education wasn't it?

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: Weasel
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 06:21 PM

It's certainly true that the kids don't "casually pick up" the things we picked up, but they're not thick! - they pick up different things.

I don't suppose we picked up the things our grandparents thought were essential.

I'm always impressed by how important children's tv programmes are to us and to them - how can they live without having known The Woodentops? - but to them, Postman Pat is just as wonderful, the Clangers are as vital to their history as Rag Tag and Bobtail or Bill and Ben were to ours.

I remember singing "For she is the flower of Killarny" from "Singing Together" when I was about 9 years old, most of us were in love with her in fact, well, with the pen drawing of the Irish beauty that headed the page, and we all identified with Black Sir Harry and that last knight who declared, "my bride, my queen, thou must with me" in "the Red the Green and the Yellow". The kids would laugh at such songs now, just at their grandchildren will laugh at their songs.

We can try to pass on to our children the things we think are important, but the tradition is, and should be, a living one that grows.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Alban
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:35 PM

Ive just seen that somone is selling Singing Together, Time & Tune, Music Workshop, Music Makers & Music time pamphlets and Teachers Notes on ebay, they look a bargain!!!!

Alban

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Robert
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 06:54 AM

I can remember the Singing Together broadcasts in the 1970s. I was at Castlehill Primary School in Bearsden and we got Singing Together from P5 through to P7. The songbooks that accompanied the broadcasts were always beautifully illustrated. The broadcasts were entertaining although I wasn't too keen on the old ballads. I think it's fair to say that the words "fair maid" and "love" occurred in a Singing Together broadcast like the word "minister" in an episode of Yes Minister. At the end of each series there was a vote on the most popular songs that had featured in that series. The winners of the vote were always bouncy upbeat non-romantic songs like Pay Me My Money Down and The Banana Boat Song. The teacher I had in P7, a woman who seemed to think kids should only like the things that elderly ladies in the 1970s liked, complained about the ballads being at the bottom of the poll or not included at all. She had no empathy with kids. On the subject of the vote, can you tell me the name of the presenter. I know one was Johnny Morris but who was the other one? If I can speak freely, he was a bit of a drip. The week before the results of the vote, he finished the programme by saying "Next week we're going to find out the results of your votes. Oh I can hardly wait". When the programme with the vote was broadcast he started with the words "At last the great day has arrived!". My words to him, 35 years on, are "Get a life". He was on another schools radio programme, the title of which I can't remember, and he said "You know, at school people used to call me "Rosie, Rosebud" and there's nothing really rosy about me at all". But it's fair to say he sounded a bit camp. Anyway, part of my not too fondly remembered years at Castlehill Primary but Singing Together was a good programme which definitely did stimulate my interest in music.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Ruthie Two Shoes
Date: 03 May 10 - 06:56 AM

Would love to find the words to Antonion, it's raining again ready for our camping holiday this year with the grandchildren - how do I find them?

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Robin Carmody
Date: 12 May 10 - 09:16 PM

Gwen/Croaker upthread: I've got the Autumn 1983 pupil's book. The songs were:

Patrick on the Railroad (Ireland, aka "...to work upon the railway")
Tinga Layo (West Indies)
Skye Boat Song (Scotland - obviously!)
The Blue-Tail Fly (USA)
Guy Fawkes (England - a prime example of a song that wouldn't be taken seriously today: best/worst line "that is, he would have used the gas, but solely was prevented, 'cause gas, you know, in James's time, it wasn't then invented")
Sleep my Baby (Wales)
Christmas Day in the Morning (England)
Calypso Carol (Canada)
Song of the Crib (Germany)
Now in Bethlem (Mexico)
Hey Little Bull (Brazil)

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Lynn Breeze
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 08:18 AM

I illustrated a few of the song books for the BBC during the seventies/ eighties. They were great fun to do... simple two colour jobs and I probably still have them in my files somewhere. It's good to hear they may still be going.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Midzone
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 09:26 AM

In reply to Robert the Singing Together presenters for those years are talking about are:

Autumn Term 1976 - Johnny Morris
Spring Term 1977 - John Camburn
Summer Term 1978 - John Amis

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Xi Hymn
Date: 30 Jun 10 - 03:32 PM

Ruthie Two Shoes, the words are....

The Rain Song

On Monday morning he got up.
"It's raining, it's raining again!"
"I can't go to school today," he said
"It's raining, it's raining again!"

Chorus: Antonio! Antonio!
it's raining, it's raining again!"

On Tuesday morning he got up.
"It's raining, it's raining again!"
"I can't play football today," he said.
"It's raining, it's raining again!"

On Wednesday morning he got up.
"It's raining, it's raining again!"
"I can't go shopping today," he said,
"It's raining, it's raining again!"

On Thursday morning he got up.
"It's raining, it's raining again!"
"I can't go swimming today," he said,
"It's raining, it's raining again!"

On Friday morning he got up.
"It's raining, it's raining again!"
"I can't paint the house today," he said,
"It's raining, it's raining again!"

On Saturday morning he got up.
"It's raining, it's raining again!"
"I can't sweep the floor today," he said,
"It's raining, it's raining again!"

On Sunday morning he got up.
"It's raining, it's raining again!"
"I can't cook the dinner today," he said,
"It's raining, it's raining again!"

I have found these lyrics because I'm desperate to rediscover the song but can only recall a fragment of the tune. So if you have the melody or sheet music or a recording of it or knowledge of where I can find them... or even just a willingness to sing/hum it, then please let me know.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Ronan
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 08:19 AM

Hi

Wonderful to discover this long-running thread. Strange how so many people have the same kind of memories. The wooden speaker plugged into some kind of socket that ran to the headmasters's office. Two classes squeezed into one classroom, etc.

We grew up in an urban setting in South London and the lyrics were sometimes like a kind of cultural education. Places like Wales, Yorkshire, Scotland were like another universe. I remember things like Men of Harlech and Lisa Llan particularly.

At the time (in the sixties) I was also buying the Record Song Book which had the lyrics of chart music. I remember experiencing a conflict between the way I sang those songs, and the way we were expected to sing in "Singing Together". I guess there were kind of blue-note slurs in all the pop songs, whereas the "folk" songs as delivered by William Appleby were squarely on the notes.

The folk songs I later came to appreciate are usually spiced with ornamental lead-in notes and jumps (can't remember what to call them - in guitar playing I would call them hammers and pull-offs). The Singing Together style must have been somehow cleaned up or simplified - or was it because they weren't being sung by folk singers as such?

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Robin Carmody
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 05:43 PM

A bit of both, I think.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: GUEST,Yvonne Jackman
Date: 23 Jul 10 - 11:54 AM

I have just found this incredibly nostalgic site. I was a Doncaster school pupil during the fifties and sixties and had the privilege of knowing 'Pip' Appleby personally. He was a great friend of my secondary school Headmistress, Miss Woollett and together they ran a Thursday lunchtime 'Listeners Club' where we heard recordings of the great classics and followed the music on miniature scores. Thanks to 'Pip' I was invited to join the Danensian Singers group and went to Leeds to record Singing Together programmes. He also used us to record hymns for the BBC Daily service for which we were paid the princely sum of £9.... a small fortune to a 16 year old in those days. Pip also encouraged me to play the 'cello'and arranged for me to have free lessons and the loan of an instrument for the remainder of my school days.
I noticed an earlier post from Ralph Bacon MBE - He and his family lived next door to us in Finch Road, so the poor man had to endure the sound of my practising - it must have been excruciating.
I still have my singing together pamplets from the 1950s - I was given them at primary school to use for tunes to play on my recorder.I owe my enduring love of classical music to William Appleby and his involvement with the Doncaster schools music service.

Subject: RE: History - BBC's 'Singing Together'
From: mikesamwild
Date: 23 Jul 10 - 12:01 PM

My teacher at Birchfields Primary Schhol Manchester, Miss Hedgewick, taught us songs in 1948 when I was about 9. She would reward you with Cherry Lips sweets from a tin if you sang well!
My love of a lot of folk songs stems from her.

She did explain that New York gals was a bit riskier than she taught us , not a prude I think!