Drum solos: Why?

Subject: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST,Bainbo
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 12:28 PM

Last nigt I was lucky enough to see a hugely respected recording group who have been at the top of their profession for 40 years or so. During playing one of their instantly recognisable hits, the group stopped while a five-minute drum solo kicked in, giving me plenty of time to start wondering: Why do musicians let drummers get away with this?

I have never yet heard a drum solo that served any purpose at all. It interrupts the flow, breaks the atmosphere, and is just downright boring. Crash, bash, ding, ding, crash, applause, and back to the music.

I have to add that I'm not naming the band because the drummer seemed a really nice chap, and, that aside, I thoroughly enjoyed the night and felt privileged to have been at the gig. Just wondered if anyone could shed any light?

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: RichM
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 12:42 PM

I think it depends on the kind of music.

Jazz audiences I think, are more tolerant of drum solos. Other kinds of music, not so much.
I tend to tune out on long solos of ANY instrument.
But then again, I tune out on long repetitive intros, vocal or instrumental, of any kind.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Ross
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 12:51 PM

It gives all the rest of the band a chance to go the loo

Moby dick - very apt

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: John Hardly
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 12:53 PM

I like 'em as I like any solo. If it's good it can be a nice departure, a bit of improv out of the expected, a nice view of the capabilities of the drummer. I view it much as I might be interested in the indiviual musicality of any of the band members.

Much as we may protest to the contrary, we like a bit of good-better- best competition -- a bit of strutting your stuff -- in our music. That's why folks pay good money to see Pat Donohue or Tony Rice, but would pay little to see me.

A little flash may go a long way with some folks, but it rarely goes nowhere.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 01:31 PM

..because a drummer seldom gets the limelight. Throughout a set, the singer/guitarist/fiddler/what-have-you is constantly the focus of attention. It's a way of acknowledging the the drummer is just as much an integral part of the band as everyone else.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 01:51 PM

I am only just resisting the temptation to post the Robinson Crusoe joke!!

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 01:56 PM

Why fight it? You know you want to.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 02:04 PM

Well said Gueast...I'm a drummer and it's nice when the band acknowledges you once in a while

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 04:06 PM

Don't see how your opinion of a solo is going to affect the reputation of "a hugely respected recording group who have been at the top of their profession for 40 years or so"--I'd be curious to know who you're talking about, because I 'd be hard pressed to name a group that had stayed at the top of the recording profession for five years, let alone 40--

Be that as it may, Jo Jones said, "The drummer is the key--the heartbeat of jazz." and a spotlighted drum solo has been the standard crowd-pleaser in jazz shows since the swing era, the idea being that, with each drum solo, you were getting a raw helping of what it was all about--certainly true when you were hearing drummers like Kenny Clarke or Big Sid Catlett, Jo Jones, Philly Joe Jones, or Max Roach, even not particularly good drummers always took a turn, and, probably more often than not, deterioriating into a series of applause milking and fairly motheaten tricks--

Of course, early rock'n'roll drummers always wanted to show that they were just as good as the drummers in the then ubiquitous jazz combos(a lot of times, they were actually the same guys), so, even when jazz was dying, the drum solo was kept alive.

When rock'n'roll became rock, and started to take itself way too seriously(and songs became way too long) the extended drum solo became a requirement, A}To maintain the honor of the drummer B)Because, for some reason, the mindless, boogeying masses had become convinced that they weren't getting the good stuff unless there was a really long, noisy drum solo C) So that bands didn't have to learn very many songs--

So a forty year old rock band would have been big at the time that the extended drum solos were expected, and they probably just were asleep when the MC5 demanded that rock "Kick Out the Jams" and get back to playing sweet, short, rock'n'roll--

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 07:13 PM

In older instrumental tunes like "Golden Wedding" - the drum solo was an integral part of the tune.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 07:30 PM

...JeZ - if the drummer isn't any good, the band, no matter how accomplished the players, won't be any good either. The drummer holds it all together by keeping the tempo.

Of course, there are always exceptions. Stones drummer Charlie Watts follows along with whatever Richards is doing. That's why the Stones always have that 'loose-as-a-goose, just-barely-held-together, could-fly-apart-any-moment, anything-could-happen' lilt to their songs that always makes for exciting listening.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 07:48 PM

Why NOT?
Some of us are just as enthralled by a good drum solo as a splendiferous bit of guitar picking or sax-blowing. And this needn't just be drum kit stuff - great bodhrans, djembes, timpani or dhols have me equally hooked! (Yes I do try to play the things myself)
I was once at a ceilidh where the drummer launched into a drum solo in the middle of "The Dashing White Sergeant". The dance freaks carried on dancing, the drum freaks stopped to watch, the others went to the loo or the bar.
My son's band were last on at a recent gig; the drummer got pissed while waiting 3 hours to go on and the band fell apart (as guest above indicated)So don't knock drummers (unless they're pissed)
TB

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST,Bainbo
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 07:59 PM

Really, I'm not knocking drummers. Really. I'm sorry if it came over like that. I know they hold the rest of the band together, and are vital component of the whole sound. It's just this practice of getting a groove - if you will - going, and then stopping it abruptly for some bash and clatter that I don't understand

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 08:08 PM

A good musician has more than un understanding of melody and harmony - a sound grasp of the endless possibilities of rhythm in all its various forms of expression in all instruments, including - one hesitates to call it acapella rhythm! - is also essential.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 08:59 PM

oh come on......!

who gives a toss about the audience. drummers are wonderful human beings, cruelly misrepresented by the media - they need to be heard, seen, appreciated....not stuck at the back of the group

in fact I think there should be a statutory drum solo in every piece of music, special support groups for people with stick problems, representation at the highest level, and a seat on the United nations Security Council for people who like drums.

have you noticed not one of the the main party leaders is going after the drum vote

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 09:16 PM

They're too interested in the Barrel votes - Oil & Pork...

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 09:28 PM

I've sometimes wondered the same thing. One drum solo joke I know is: explorers sailing a canoe up the nameless rain forest jungle of your choice hears the sinister sound of far off tribal drums. This goes on for hours. One explorer says to the next. "These drums are driving me crazy." The other says, "it's worse, when they stop." The first says, "why, what happens?" Out of the thick underbrush comes the answer: "Saxophone solo."

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Gedpipes
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 03:49 AM

you want to try living with a drummer! My son practices for at least an hour a day.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Kaleea
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 04:38 AM

There are lots of folks who play instruments, and then there are some extremely talented performing Musicians--in every genre of Music. Those Musicians are sometimes given the opportunity to have their Art offered as a solo during a Musical "number." In Jazz, it seems most common, but there are times when the performers are still learning their art, or perhaps aren't that whippy. Then there are times when we experience Art in a way we haven't experienced it before, & it seems strange to us. I have heard several "old timers" speak of Gene Krupa playing a solo when audience members went wild, applauded, & even wept in appreciation to his Musicianship. Also, those who heard other percussionists performing "Latin" or "Spanish" (old timey terms) Music. I have seen footage where the late Dezi Arnaz truly wowed the women when performing solo on his conga drum during a break in a "song." I play many instruments & often change from one instrument to another, especially while performing Irish Music. When I'm playing my Bodhran, every now & then one of the guys in our band hollars out "Fiddle" or "Banjo" or "Mando" or " Bass" etc., & has been known to hollar out "Bodhran." At that point, I play a version of the tune which is unusually melodic to the ears of most folks. Sometimes the folks actually applaud. Stranger things have happened.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: mindblaster
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 05:44 AM

If it's a good solo then it's worthwhile. There was a period in the late sixties early seventies when every band included a drum solo in their set most of which were pretty boring. I think it was Ginger Baker who started the trend in pop, as he came from a jazz background. There are some magic exceptions though such as the Grateful Dead who used to include a "drums" sequence in their set. This included the rest of the band joining in with various additional drums and percussion instruments.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 06:18 AM

Its where Mozart slipped up really........ not enough drum solos.

A few paradiddles, a bit of Keith Moon and the Eine Kleine Nahctmusik would be all but perfect.

The Moonlight Sonata ....if only Ludwig Van had phoned up that guy out of MJQ for the session to give it a boot up the jaxie.

And, breathes there a soul so dull that wouldn't like to see/hear Ginger Baker liven up/dismantle anything those bloody three tenors have a go at.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: kendall
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 06:27 AM

Do you know why a drum solo is like pre mature ejaculation?


because




you can feel it coming on, but there isn't a damn thing you can do to stop it.

Yes, I hate drums. To me, it's nothing but fancy pounding.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 06:37 AM

Drummers are certified loonies are are an essential ingredient in any fun-loving band. Audiences pay to be entertained so bring on the loonies!

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 06:45 AM

The answer's simple - most drummers aren't bright enough to realise that the rest of the band have stopped playing.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: s6k
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 06:51 AM

led zeppelin - moby dick

a masterpiece

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: DaveA
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 06:54 AM

I guess we are a broad church as regards music. However, I think there is a need for differentiation between folk & some other forms of music here. I agree with the point made about a drummer being an integral part of a jazz or rock band & have no problem with him/her having their few minutes in the spotlight. However, in the folk genre, where the emphasis is on melody or lyrics, it is hard to see where they can contribute very much to the experience by doing a solo.

Come to think of it, with the exception of some wild fiddling, it is hard to think of many folk performances that feature genuine intrumental breaks of any kind. Steeleye Span use it occasionally (the Daemon Lover comes to mind) but as a rule it seems a folk sung is either vocal or instrumental & the twain rarely meet

Dave

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Mooh
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 09:15 AM

My little rockin' blues combo uses lots of drum breaks, well timed and just as likely as sax fills. The only long solo we do has everyone in the band beating on something. It takes a really fine drummer to keep my attention (and the beat) for an extended solo that fits the tune, but it can be done.

John Bonham left a legacy, thank goodness.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 12:32 PM

I'm not surprised that denizens of a folk-music site would include a number of people who don't especially appreciate drum solos (or for that matter, drumming at all). Most subgenres of "folk" don't include drums or much percussion of any kind. (Yeah, I know, there are plenty of exceptions, notably including the much-maligned bodhran as well as all kinds of maracas, castinets, tambourines, etc. etc., etc. -- but an awful lot of folk features vocals and/or stringed instruments exclusively, as well as other non-percussion instruments like squeezeboxes, etc.)

Once you get into jazz, rock, electric-blues, and various forms of dance music, of course, you introduce the drum, which often means the modern drum kit or set of traps, which provides the percussionist with a dozen or more different items to beat, and hence the wherewithal to out together a creative solo of some kind.

Drummers are largely unappreciated by the musically unsophisticated (by which I mean folk who enjoy drum-based music without recognizing the role of the drum ~ I'm not referring here to those who are simply uninterested in styles that feature the drum). The practice of "giving the drummer some" serves to provide the least-glamorous bandmate a little time in the spotlight, so to speak, and is perfectly appropriate as a courtesy among the musicians. As far as the audience is concerned, some will appreciate the solo and others will not, and for those who can't dig it, well, it's only a couple of minutes out of an evening's entertainment.

That said, there are plenty of drummers who are adequate accompanyists but terrible soloists; that is, they fulfill their role in the ensemble perfectly well, but don't have a clue what to play when granted their Big Moment, except to make a lot of noise. These guys may to trying to imitate other drum solos they've heard, but they failed to listen to good drum solos with enough intelligence to perceive that a truly musicianly drummer (a) stays on the beat when soloing and (b) ideally stays with the rhythmic structure of the entire piece, e.g., conforming to 32-bar verses, etc.

Of course, the good drummers who structure their solos intelligently often go unappreciated. Many audience members are going to dislike any drum solo, and another large contingent will applaud any effort as long as it's noisy and energetic. Those who recognize and appeciate a superior drum solo are few and far between. Of course, one would hope that a truly inspired effort will evoke a positive response, even from those audience members who may not consicously recognize the details of the performance but who are appropriately moved by a well-structured passage.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Tam the man
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 01:25 PM

it gives them something to do.

What about Bordhran solo's then we hardly get to do them, but mind you who want that anyway.

Tom Bordhran player of sorts

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 01:43 PM

Drum do have a place in folk - international folk, that is. As in African drum music, or Korean or Japanese drum music, etc etc. But closer to home too - there are types of Greek/Albanian/Bulgarian/Turkish music that without the drum (be it a big fella or a little toubeleki) would sound "naked". There are African war dances that without the drum would look silly.

It's just an instrument, with a role to play. And now and then, a well-played solo can be enhancing.

I remember the Chieftains doing a "duelling bodhran" number that was wonderful.

And for the definitive use of drums alone to create music (in my book) listen to Flairck's "Het Debat" from their album "Bal Masque".

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST,Songster Bob
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 02:13 PM

You want drum solos? Try this site. It's a blast!

http://www.fjallfil.com/english/

At least, I think that's the site. I don't have the plugin on this computer (the US doesn't want to give it to me), so perhaps it's not the right URL, but it's close, for sure.

Bob

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 02:51 PM

Remember Stomp? ...nothing but rhythm and percussion - and a great show.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: kendall
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 03:14 PM

Why do drummers leave their sticks on the dashboard?




so they can park in the Handicap zone

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 09:52 PM

The Movie 1941 was on TV here last night. During the Dance Comp scene, the Big Band breaks into a long 'jive number' in which the drummer takes a lead part and other instruments are just a slight fill. Now that is really using the drum kit well - perhaps technically not a solo, but reminiscent of things like 'Golden Wedding', which was a really big popular hit at the time, and for many years after.

Spielberg really took the piss out of the the US war hysteria (and really got the feel of much of the culture) of the time - pity the US film critics couldn't take it and the film was considered a flop. The more I watch that film the more I like it. It's a great romp.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:58 AM

Almost every adolescent male wants to be a drummer. Having been one and reared two more I can attest that they beat on anything within reach. Drum solos (in rock, at least) are meant to appeal primarilly to that audience segment. Why any band whose music isn't aimed at the 16-21 age group would want to include extended drum solos is a mystery. A short break is one thing, but a five-minute solo is another.

Having said that, there is a world of difference between solos played on drum kits and drum jams played on a variety of percussion instruments. Drum kit solos are limited to a handful of textures while drum jams can incorporate more interesting-sounding instruments. Plus, since there are more players in drum jams, the rhythms themselves can be far more interesting and polyrhythmic.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: s6k
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 10:04 AM

i went to see Rush not so long back, and one of the pieces they did in the 2nd half was just Neil Peart doing a drum solo. it was bloody fantastic, although he is arguably the best drummer in the world. the same thing happened when i saw Yes, with Alan White. He had a lot more drums though. he had one normal kit and also one with about 20 drums on it. he was also amazing.
its a shame i will never see john bonham live, i have only the dvds to watch of him.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: CharleyR
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 11:48 AM

Has anyone seen John Joe Kelly from Flook do the bodhran solo bit of their set? Even as a non-drummer I find his playing pretty impressive.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Tam the man
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:01 PM

What was stomp I don't remember it. I've never heard of Stomp, it sounds like an illness, going to the doctor and saying I've got a dose of Stomp.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:09 PM

"...that I don't understand"

Sums it all up right there if ya ask me... Learn a little something about percussion... it'll increase your appreciation

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:19 PM

You ain't seen nothing 'till you've see an Albanian "defi" player draw a whole octave out of a piece of skin barely 1 foot in diameter. It would make bodhran players green with jealousy.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: kendall
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:48 PM

I learned plenty about percussion years ago. I learned what I like and what I don't like.
Timpany yes

Bodrhan yes (In competent hands)

bass drum yes
snare drums and cymbals, no. period.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:49 PM

"Stomp" was a successful Broadway show which eventually went on tour. I'm sure it's been seen in all major US cities, and suspect it would probably have made to London and other international tour destinations as well.

Unlike the standard "musical comedy," it was not play or operetta, but consisted strictly of music and dance (not unlike, say, "Riverdance"), except that all the music was percussion ~ no "melodic" (note-playing) instruments at all. I believe that trash cans and lids, etc., were prominently featured, played onstage by the dancer/performers.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 02:29 PM

And crumpled-up newspaper, and pieces of tubing, and rubber tires...
I saw them 2 years ago In High Wycombe, UK - brilliant!

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 02:48 PM

I once saw this Shakepeare play - Ithink it was King John at The Other Place Stratford and all the music was just one drum kit. Worked pretty well.

drums are beautiful - nothing nicer than seeing a slingerland kit all crisp and gleaming and glittering. And the drummer comes and thwacks out a few licks and you think....wow that guys knows one end of a stick from the other.

strangely enough I was thinking how a group can sometimes be defined by its bacline musicians. Mike Hugg with Manfred mann is an obvious case , John Steele with the Animals - even with chas, Eric, alan/Dave missing - the sound was unmistakeable with just Hilt and John. haven't seen them now that Hilt has gone. they are doing the Fishponds Matlock in September - I am looking forward to it.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 02:53 PM

Albanian drumming, eh, El Greko? It's true. And you can't play a decent Berance without a drummer-

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:04 PM

Go to this site and listen to the last track, "Valle Korcare", and marvel at how the defi is used instead of a bass instrument.

The defi (or frame-drum) is used in Greek trad music also, quite a lot in fact; but the Albanian players are the true masters.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:31 PM

"Stomp" creators were from the UK, I think. One was a busker. The link provides more info.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 12:03 AM

That clarinet player sounded awful familiar, and when I looked at the credits, I was surprised to find that it was my old friend George Chittendon, who I played Balkan music with years ago in the Westwind Ensemble- and the defi was Dan Auvil who I knew from the same time--they both played at my wedding!

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 03:25 AM

Why? Drummers usually own the van, they need it for their kit, they let the rest of the band share only it if they can do a solo!

RtS

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 07:06 AM

They're useful when the git lead guitarist has overloaded the electric system and blows the fuses in the middle of a gig.   They can carry on regardless until the caretaker has run home, found the fusewire, run back, run home again for a Philips (+) screwdriver and back, fixed the fuses and sworn at the lead guitarist for 5 minutes solid.

I was at that gig... the band was 'Blue Stratos', the caretaker Mr Phillips, the place, Charminster Village hall, circa 1976 and the drummer was Terry Bernard. His big brother Barry was in the group Jigsaw which had a No.5 hit in 1975. Oddly enough, it was on the radio yesterday.

LTS

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 08:03 AM

I've been to plenty of heavy metal concerts which included drum solos. There's always a huge cheer at the end, which the drummer often mistakes for approval. But in fact it's an outpouring of relief, and gratitude that it's time for another song

It's not simply drummers, whenever an instrumentalist takes the spotlight to show their individual chops, it's pure wankery

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Padre
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 08:52 AM

Why drum solos? 'Cause the drummer is the only guy in the band who has pointed sticks.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST,Mr Red (with his two red bodhrans)
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 10:56 AM

And it is the one time he has to support less musicians than the drum seat.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 02:41 PM

I do not understand why people think that drumming should not be needed in music. Ok, in some things yes I can agree, I personally don't tend to play waltzes, airs etc....because it is a part of folk music that does not need it. Drummers need to learn when they should and shouldn't play, and that's coming from me, a bodhran player.

Put it this way, if drummer's weren't in bands, there are a hell of a lot of bands out there that would fall apart if they did not have a beat in some shape or form. A drum is an integral part of any band, I'd even go as far as saying it is probably the backbone in a lot of ways.
You also have bass guitar moving on to other genres of music (and staying in folk music aswell in my session in the maltings in york), who provide a steady beat/rhythm etc in a band.

Drummer's have a place in music everywhere, even classical (timpanies). We have a damn important job to do and if we want to have a little bit of recognition for it, then let us have our glory once in a while. We deserve it at the end of the day.

My only objection to this is if the drummer happen's to be crap and making the band fall apart, well, then you just want to get them off the stage and shove them down the closest manhole and not even think of letting them near a solo, and confiscate their instrument. :0)

lol

Jez xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 08:54 AM

I can't think of one folk song that requires a drum.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST,jacqui.c
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 09:09 AM

My first real introduction to drums was listening to Sandy Nelson doing 'Let There Be Drums' in the early sixties. That just about did it for me and I've been a sucker for drums ever since. then there was Cosy Powell who just blew me away. A good drum slo can be a thing of real beauty and I would agree that the drummer does hold a band together, that beat just keeps things on the right track.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 09:33 AM

You are not thinking hard enough GUEST, 28 Apr 05 - 08:54 AM.

A lot of mediaeval songs are meant to be accompanied by a single drum: "Tapster, Drinker" is but one of them, and one of the better known.

Also, "Sir Richard's Song" is much enhanced by a simple, slow, drum beat; it heightenes the sense of drama and is most fitting to the lyrics and mood of the song.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 09:34 AM

'Over the hills and far away'... "Here's 40 shillings on the drum". That one needs a drum.

'Captain Ward and the Rainbow'... "Come all you valiant seamen bold, with courage beat your drum'.

There's two for you..

LTS

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 09:39 AM

A lot of work chants were accompanied by drums of one kind or another, and, of course military marching, with all of its marching rhymes, would be impossible without drums(maybe that's why so many folkies don't like drums)--

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 09:50 AM

One of the most moving renditions of "The Trimdon Grange Explosion" that I've ever heard was accompanied by just a bass drum playrd as if for a slow march:

Let's not think about to-mor-row lest we dis-a-ppointed be
^         ^          ^      ^          ^    ^         ^ ^^

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST,Doo Veck
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 10:00 AM

GUEST 8 Apr 05 - 08:54 AM says
'I can't think of one folk song that requires a drum'

'The Female - - - - er' needs a 'drum' in it don't ya think?
Or Walter Pardon would've had to introduce it as 'The Female Er'

Guest Doo Veck? Get outa here!

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 10:11 AM

Folksongs, by their root nature, only need a single larynx.

But as to why anyone should want to listen to adrum solo, the very question boggles my mind and belies, to me, a beat-deaf ear.

Anyone who ever listened to the long drum solo in the middle of "Take Five" performed by Joe Morello, or a latter-day version of the same number with Danny Brubeck at the drums, can not help but be amazed by what one man with two sticks can do to your sense of time and space. You're just listening on the wrong frequency, is all.


A

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 10:52 AM

Fuck you Amos! I just read this entire thread and all alonng I've had two thoughts and that was one of them! Morello was great. The entire group was great. And why?

They had texture. Paul Desmond used to say he was the world's slowest and quietest alto player....LOL.....But it was true. Listen to Desmond and you realize that you might be assuming notes that aren't there.....or are they? Very much the same with Morello. The crescendos and decrescendos are fantastic and you find yourself wondering if you are actually hearing or are you assuming? Additionally it took a great drummer to deal with the time signatures in most of Brubeck's stuff.

Brubeck himself had great touch. It's one thing to control decibel level in a wind instrument but touch on a piano is all too rare. (BTW, I heard Pam Swan play on a CD and trust me, she has great touch!) I always felt with Dave Brubeck Quartet that you were never attacked by the music or washed over by it, but rather it slowly enveloped you and drew you out instead of forcing itself in.

Gotta' go.....The other comment was about the kick of watching good drummers......Buddy Rich had a FANTASTIC big band and it was always fun to watch Buddy. There were better all around drummers but Buddy was a kick and when it came to big band drummers, he was right up there. The music never suffered for his ego as he knew the music well......but man the guy was a show!!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 11:42 AM

Buddy Rich was an outstanding musician and showman (and, incidentally, drummer-wannabe Johnny Carson's idol), but he was also widely known among musicians as a miserable human being, a truly mean-spirited sumbitch, and the worst employer in the entire music business.

There is an amazing "bootleg" tape of him berating and obscenely belittling his band members after a gig. Apparently one of the guys in the band had a portable tape recorder running during a "team meeting" on the tour bus after a gig. It circulated fairly widely among jazz and rock players back in the 70s; I have to wonder whether there's a sound file of his tirade somewhere out on the internet, waiting to be rediscovered.

By the way, this is not meant to denigrate drummers in general, just the individual drummer/bandleader Buddy Rich. In fact, the person who first brought this to my attention, my brother, is himself a drummer (and an excellent professional musician at that).

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST,Bainbo
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 11:47 AM

Wow! when I started this thread, I never realised it would become so interesting and informative.

I suppose there's no harm in me naming the group that started me thinking. As M.Ted said, they;ve been at the top so long that my opinion's certainly not going to harm them. It was Booker T and the MGs. As smooth, professional and gracious now as they ever were, and it was a great night.

Several people mentioned that solos gave the drummer a chance to share the spotlight. I suppose there may have been an element of that, as their original drummer, Al Jackson, is sadly no longer with us, so stepping in to work with Booker T, Duck Dunn and Steve Cropper, who have worked together for so long, must be a bit daunting.

And maybe other posters are right, too, and I just have no appreciation of rhythm. I did use to be a morris dancer, after all!

Thanks very much,
a wiser and better informed Bainbo

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 11:56 AM

Yeah Poppa Gator, I know the story and have a few others if you like. A friend of mine was his lead trumpet player for about 6 months and only John's personality type would have tolerated a third of what he put up with. BTW, that was John's last stop before Kenton where he stayed for several years. His entire life and his main goal in it was to be the lead player with Kenton and his entire style was developed around that particular sound (great range with power and a full sound). He's on quite a few recordings....John Harner. I think everything else in his life was a letdown after achieving his life's goal at age 23.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: kendall
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:02 PM

I'm trying to imagine one of those frantic spastic slamming and banging breaks in the middle of Lord Franklin.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:19 PM

Horses for courses - some pieces will work with a drum solo and others won't.

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: kendall
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 01:17 PM

MOST wont

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 01:27 PM

Christy Moore singing the well below the valley - gotta be some sort of perfection attained with that, and just a drum and a voice - and then he does a drum solo - he's got a little swan neck mike into the drum....

drum solos...that's why!

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:52 PM

I think these audio files have been around on the Internet for some time Bitch Buddy bitch

Subject: RE: Drum solos: Why?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 05:38 PM

Thanks for the link, GUEST. It's interesting to read the background, i.e., the comments from a veteran musician who sympathized with Buddy Rich and felt the younger guys in the band deserved all the criticism he dealt out to them.

Reading the transcriptions (as opposed to listening to his tone of voice, etc.) tends to make Rich seem less of a villian, too.