Resonator guitar question

Subject: Resonator guitar question
From: Matt_R
Date: 15 May 05 - 02:28 AM

Ok, I have a Fender resonator guitar (wood) and I'm trying to get it to sound, how do you say, 'different'. I've heard dobros & resonators on different recordings that have this really distinct tinny sound, like the strings are tuned way down. I used regular light gauge bronze strings on mine, and it just sounds like regular guitar string sound over the resonator. How can you create this plinky, tinny sound? Does it have something to do with string tension, kind of strings or is it related to the kind of resonator in the guitar?

Subject: RE: Resonator guitar question
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 May 05 - 02:32 AM

I'll be watching your thread, Matt- I've recently taken up the dobro. Today I watched the first part of a beginner's course by Cindy Cashdollar. A friend lent it to me last night.

I haven't taken the dobro out of the house yet- and it will stay that way for awhile.

Good luck.
Eb

Subject: RE: Resonator guitar question
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 15 May 05 - 11:46 AM

Hi Matt , Lets start with what tunnings are you useing ?? Light Gauge strings at G tuning (with the dobro low B on the fith) is ok but might sound fuller with med dadario or deangelico bronz . D tuning needs heavier strings for sure . If you are playing blues try spanish or G tuning (low G on the fith) and get a 5 string banjo chord chart to give you chords around the neck. So mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmeny styles here and lots of background to be found in the threads.. HAve a blast and good luck . Yours Guy Wolff

Subject: RE: Resonator guitar question
From: number 6
Date: 15 May 05 - 03:41 PM

the tunings that Guy mentioned above will produce greatly different sounds, also .... the bridge (wood biscuit or bone), and the cone (tri, single, even manufacturer) affects the sound/tone with resonators. I've played a steel Fender and was very much impressed.

sIx

Subject: RE: Resonator guitar question
From: GUEST, Ebbie
Date: 15 May 05 - 04:05 PM

I thought what Guy gave above, an open G tuning (G,B,D; G,B,D) was a standard? What is a good tuning to start with?

Subject: RE: Resonator guitar question
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 15 May 05 - 04:24 PM

If your playing bluegrass and have the guitar turned flat so your useing the slide bar from above held in the pawm of the left hand(looking down at the guitar on your lap) yes that is the standard tuning for Dobro style playing . For blues the guitar is held in the regular way against the stomack and the slid is on a finger . For " bottleneck" there are other tunings.Mostly D (E) or G (A) . Sorry if I confused matters . Im great at doing that . Just ask my wife. !

Subject: RE: Resonator guitar question
From: Mooh
Date: 15 May 05 - 04:57 PM

I like medium guage D'Addario Flattops strings for acoustic lap steel/slide work in open G (DGDGBD, low to high). Beef up guages to tune down. Open D (DADF#AD) and DADGAD works well with the same strings.

Never much cared for GBDGBD, but that's just a personal quirk.

Open Em (EBEGBE) is cool too.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Resonator guitar question
From: number 6
Date: 15 May 05 - 05:34 PM

Open Em ... looks interesting .... gonna give that a try.

Thanks Mooh

Subject: RE: Resonator guitar question
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 May 05 - 07:51 PM

..if its one of the recent chinese made budget price fenders..

i've tried a couple out in different shops because i fancied buying one..
but was'nt convinced enough by the sound;

then i read a review somewhere arguing that the resonator on it was more 'cosmetic'
than functional..

and that it could'nt really be made to sound much different to a regular
non resonator equipped acoustic..

sorry.. hope you do succeed in getting yours to sound good

Subject: RE: Resonator guitar question
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 15 May 05 - 11:43 PM

WOW! Good luck Matt.
I don't own a Res (yet), but have played and loved them, and I also play slide.
Light strings won't make a full enough sound. You should probably use mediums for now like Guy said.
A lot of people start with Open G (ala Son House), but you can experiment with many open tunings, and choose which you like best.

Keep Wailin'!

Subject: RE: Resonator guitar question
From: GUEST,guitarnut
Date: 16 May 05 - 12:39 AM

I've not played that specific beast. So, I don't know what you're up against exactly. Perhaps if you could describe just what kind of music you're wanting to emulate, the suggestions here could be better made to answer your questions. There are subtle things that can change the way that the resonator reproduces sound.

Have you taken the cover plate off to look at the resonator? What type of resonator does it have inside of it? The kind that has an aluminum (spider style) bridge with a bone saddle set in it (a Dobro style), or is it the kind that has a bridge that is a disk of wood with a saddle set in it that sits atop the cone (a National style)?

If you cut a Dobro resonator exactly in half it would look close to the shape of the letter "W". If you did the same with a National type cone it would look like an upside down letter "V" except with a flattened point. The two distinctively different cones each function to do the same task, amplify, but each produces uniquely different sound characteristics.

Generally speaking, blues guys today use National brand guitars. Perhaps this is because there were blues heroes of the past that used them. Dobros brand guitars are favorites of the bluegrass and country music devotees. What kind of music do you favor? Most Dobro type music (bluegrass and country) is played lap style and most blues music is played bottleneck style.

The Dobro style bridge can be adjusted by loosening or tightening the screw that is in the center. You'll want this screw just tight enough to keep the resonator and bridge from rattling or buzzing after everything is tuned up to the specific tuning that you choose to play in. Mind you, different tunings will place different amounts of pressure on the bridge and may require a change of tension on that screw. If it's too tight it will dampen the resonance of the cone, too loose and things get to buzzing.

Another thing to check is the way the cone (resonator) sits in the body. Is there enough space or is it crowded? Did the maker use something to fill excess space in the sound well? Does the cone lie flat on the bottom?

You may wish to replace the cone with a more expensive alternative. A man who makes Dobro's cones, Quarterman, also makes his own at a slightly more expensive price. It's difficult to tell the difference without having the two cones side by side installed in like guitars. He claims his are made out of a better alloy. I went for it and bought one for my guitar. It seems to works fine. As to whether it is actually better than the ones he makes for Dobro is debatable, but it may be a better alternative than what Fender has installed in their guitars.

If you open this guitar up check to see how large the sound holes are in the sound well. The more open space that the resonator has to emit it's vibrations, the louder your guitar will sound. I've noticed that the Fender's "F" shaped sound holes in the face don't allow much space for the sound within the body to escape. This ultimately mutes your guitar's volume. Take a look at a National Tri-Plate (or Tri-Cone, as I've heard them called) lots of room in those sound holes to let the sound out of the body.

If you're afraid of getting into your guitar, take it someone you trust to help you with the examination and any tweaking that it may need to get it to play and/or sound the way you want. Experiment with different tunings and string guages as was already suggested. Find a recording of what you'd like to sound like and try to determine what key the player is using. Chances are the tuning can lead you to the sound you want, but each instrument will also have different properties depending upon how it's made, and what it's made of, either wood or metal body.

Subject: RE: Resonator guitar question
From: Matt_R
Date: 23 May 05 - 02:18 AM

But the thing is, I don't want it to have a full sound. I want that nasty grungy tinny sound like some baling wire strung over a cardboard box.

Subject: RE: Resonator guitar question
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 May 05 - 09:28 AM

Check your mailbox - some baling wire in a cardboard box is in the mail.

Subject: RE: Resonator guitar question
From: mooman
Date: 23 May 05 - 10:11 AM

Matt,

That grungy metallic sound is especially characteristic of metal-bodied "National" style resonators (especially the "Duolian" style). I normally use 12-54 phosphor bronze on mine (in normal tuning) and the result is as you describe for that authentic delta sound.

Some tweaking of gauges and even the cone may help in that direction but a wooden-bodied reso (more typical for BG) will never have quite the same sound as a metal bodied one.

Peace

moo