BS: Hypothetical legal question

Subject: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 09:38 PM

What if, hypothetically, a man were to get arrested for hitting his girlfriend, be granted bail, break the conditions of bail, and be arrested again?

Would the advice the girlfriend had hypothetically recieved previous to his being granted bail still be applicable? The advice being to get a solicitor to contact the procurator fiscal explaining that she didn't want him prosecuted?

Say this happened in Scotland.

Any hypothetical advice would be hypothetically appreciated...

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 10:01 PM

Whether this happened in Scotland or Lower Elbownia: If you are the "hypothetical" girl involved, either press charges against him or get psychological counselling to sort out why you would put up with, or condone, physical abuse. No "hypothetical" woman needs that.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 10:10 PM

Let's say the hypothetical incident was a one-off drunken argument blown out of all proportion by whoever reported it and by the police, and the hypothetical woman has just found out she's pregnant and could do without having her partner in jail for the next five months? :)

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 10:10 PM

And if Guest were the hypothetical man, Frogprince?

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: *daylia*
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 10:29 PM

When hypothetically pregnant, even the hypothetical possibility of another episode of hypothetical drunkenness and related hypothetical physical abuse is of the utmost hypothetical concern. Hopefully for BOTH hypothetical parents.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 10:32 PM

Try citizens advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 02:08 AM

Hypothetically:~

It depends what the bail conditions were. If they were to not go anywhere near the girl, and he approached her, no chance. If it were she that approached him.. that might be different. Restraining orders are set with the assumption that the victim wouldn't go near the offender. Your mention of the procurator fiscal (minus a hypothetical) tells us that this DID happen in Scotland so the laws are slightly different.

If it is the result of a 'one-off drunken argument' resulting in minor injuries, and a first offence, it is highly unlikely that the offender will get a gaol term. Most likely a formal caution, a fine and a permanent record. If it is not a first offence, or the injuries are severe, then yes.. a custodial sentence might be the result.

But:~

Having been the actual victim of an actual 'one-off drunken argument' assault I know that there is no such thing as 'a one-off'. Trust has been broken and that takes longer to heal than broken bones - believe me, I still get twinges from my fractured skull, but I wouldn't trust him to piss straight. It will always be there in the backs of your minds. And if it ISN'T a first offence, then get the hell out of there. Drop charges by all means, but get the hell out of the relationship. If it happened once, it will happen again.

Talk to the Citizens Advice Bureau; or one of the many solicitors who give advice clinics for a small charge or for free.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: GUEST,Grab
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 08:25 AM

Hypothetically, if it's a "one-off drunken argument" and the hypothetical woman wants to keep that partner, the hypothetical woman should ask herself why she pressed charges in the first place. Because the police and courts can't take it any further unless the hypothetical victim presses charges (unless the hypothetical victim is under age, or dead, or otherwise unable to take personal responsibility). Talk to the police.

Also hypothetically, the hypothetical woman should ask herself why she wants to keep that partner. Whatever happens with pressing charges or not, the hypothetical man should be dumped like the big piece of shit he is. And the hypothetical man should get his head around the fact that you don't hit women, whether you're drunk or not.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 08:30 AM

And as for the hypothetical pregnancy, do you really want a father for the hypothetical child who hits those he hypothetically loves when he is drunk?

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 08:34 AM

The hypothetical answer is a hypothetical NO, or YES, hypothetical as it seems hypothetically fit.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 08:48 AM

I'd say trust your own judgement.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 08:49 AM

This is in fact a hypothetical psychological question.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 09:05 AM

Though there's no discounting the difficulties-physically, mentally, and emotionally- of leaving an abusive partner, I'm echoing Liz's response.

Been there, done that.

Leave!!

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: *daylia*
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 10:34 AM

Ditto, Azizi - except you forgot to mention financially. Women who extrapolate themselves from such a partner can pay a huge price - but even so, it's just diddely compared to the costs of living with family abuse. And even if, in deference to the police and the courts, the hypothetical man avoids further abuse of his hypothetically pregnant hypothetical partner, what's to stop him from venting his hypothetically drunken spleen on his hypothetical child(ren) a few months or years down the road?

People who are violent with women often abuse children (and animals) as well - or anyone over whom they hold a position of power/authority. Unfortunately, I know from personal experience EXACTLY what I'm talking about!   :-(   

And unlike the hypothetical woman, who can and does decide for herself whether or not she'll take the risks (and the raps), her hypothetical child and any future hypothetical siblings is/are completely powerless. And helpless. And very much at risk.

Please decide MOST carefully, GUEST.   A couple decades of dealing with the aftermath of the 4-5 years of (non-hypothetical) abuse my (non-hypothetical) alcoholic ex levelled at his (non-hypothetical) babies/ children while I was at work or otherwise out of sight / earshot smartened me up REAL well, believe me. Threatening him with the police if he ever hit me seemed to save my skin, at least physically - but it did NOT end up saving theirs.   :-(

All the very best,

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: Deda
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 10:57 AM

It's all hypothetical, of course, because none of us is living this except Guest. But a guy who gets drunk and abusive once, no matter how remorseful he says he is, has it in him to do it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 12:01 PM

And from my Victim Support days - it seems that an abused partner averages out at about 27 attacks before finally leaving.

Don't become a statistic.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 12:10 PM

See a specialist lawyer (that lets me out) too - it could even prove profitable!

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 04:08 PM

If guest were the hypothetical man, Ebbie? "If you manage to weasel out of being charged with this, which I hope you don't, MAIL support for your child, get into anger management, don't go NEAR her again unless everyone concerned is confident that you have really been able to deal with your issues, and, even then, if she expresses her desire for you to keep away from her, KEEP AWAY!"
            Dean.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 06:42 PM

Good answer, you prince of a frog.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 07:20 PM

Not that I know how they do things in Scotland, but in the US, the cops wouldn't have taken someone off to jail unless the drunken perpetrator was drunk and perpetrating when they arrived at the scene. They figure that if the flashing lights and the truncheons pounding on the door don't remind you to keep your hands to yourself--you don't have enough control of your life to be trusted out on your own--

And of course, if all was hearts and flowers, there wouldn't have been need for bail, or conditions attached to it, and, if there were, any one who was really in control of their own life would have no trouble at all abiding by the judge's orders.


If you are going to create a hypothetical man, it would be hard to create one that a judge would have less sympathy for than one who gets drunk and beats up a woman that he has recently made pregnant.
Maybe it is different in Scotland, but I doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 08:14 PM

"Hypothetically, if it's a "one-off drunken argument" and the hypothetical woman wants to keep that partner, the hypothetical woman should ask herself why she pressed charges in the first place. Because the police and courts can't take it any further unless the hypothetical victim presses charges (unless the hypothetical victim is under age, or dead, or otherwise unable to take personal responsibility). Talk to the police."

The hypothetical woman didn't press charges in the first place... i think because the hypothetical incident happened in a public place, it's slightly different.

Thanks for all yous help :)

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 04:16 AM

Well at least the hypothetical bloke had the 'guts' to do it in public... most incidents like this happen behind closed doors. BUT... if doing it in a public place didn't dissuade him from doing it, then nothing but a police involvement will.

It's very easy in a public place, to make an assault look like an accident... a 'drunken stagger', a 'trip', an expansive 'happy gesture', the punch to the stomach and the pinch on the arm under cover of a hug, the hand held lovingly in a grip like a vice, the teasing tug of the hair, the foot under the table scraping heavily over the toes......

Someone has to look over the incident very VERY carefully to make sure it really was, hypothetically, an accident that was misinterpreted by an observer.

Legal advice is still the suggestion.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Hypothetical legal question
From: jpk
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 05:34 PM

how bad was she beating him up before he finally fought back? tis not always the guys fault you know,just we get blamed for it every time regardless.friend of mine left his girlfriend cause of her abuse,he did not believe in hitting women,finally did out of self defense,then walked off,this time she did not chase after him.