BS: Is America's free press dead???

Subject: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:23 PM

Given the jailing of Judy Miller of the New York Times for not be willing to "out" her source of who "outed" Valarie Plume, will a free and independent press survive this latest attempt to end end an erra when folks who saw bad stuff happening were willin' to say something???

And, if so then why is it that Robert Novak, who actually did the public outing, not being jailed???

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:46 PM

The Old Boys Network looks after itself, mate.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: GUEST,Peter Wooodruff
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:47 PM

Dear Bobert,
Carl Rove committed treason. Carl Rove is going down! Flaming down!
Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:52 PM

Carl Rove Should Hang!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:52 PM

Maybe Novak named names.

Personally, I'd sort of like to see whoever in the White House outed Valerie Plame get some serious scrutiny. My hope is that it's Mr. Rove or Mr. Cheny. Both would be my first preference. And Rumsfeld, too. And Wolfowitz.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 11:02 PM

NO! America's free press is not dead! YET! Go to airamerica.com

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 11:05 PM

Yeah, CarolC, but at the momment the focus is on Judy Miller, who never ever printed anything that outed out Valarie Plame...

But yeah, word on the street is that Karl Rove outed her...

Ahhhh, like isn't that treason???? I think it is.... Should Karl Rove face the death penalty???

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 11:12 PM

I think a case could be made that it is treason. But I'm not a big fan of the death penalty.

I have to agree with the journalists here in the Mudcat who were talking about the "public service" test of what should remain protected. I don't think it serves any public good to protect whoever in the White House committed this act. I do think the journalists would have better served the public had they actually wrote a news story to inform the public that such an act had occurred.

The fact that these "journalists" did not inform the public of this is what tells me that the US does not have a free press, not the fact that they are still trying to cover the administration's collective ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 12:04 AM

Here's what Bill Israel has to say, "Reporters with a gut fear of breaching confidential sources must fight like tigers to protect them. But neither reporters Cooper nor Miller, nor their publications, nor anyone in journalism should protect the behavior of Rove (or anyone else) through an undiscerning, blanket use of the First Amendment that weakens its protections by its gross misuse."

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:56 AM

Geeze. I can't believe I made this mistake. I blame it on only three or four hours of sleep last night.

Correction:

"I do think the journalists would have better served the public had they actually written a news story to inform the public that such an act had occurred."

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 03:10 AM

The "free press" died when the major television networks discovered that the success of CNN had turned thier news departments into proffit centers instead of loss leaders. No life can be restored to it.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: GUEST,George the Third
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 03:16 PM

Would someone care to provide the basic facts to those of us over here who have been tapdancing round bombs for a day or so, so can find nothing else in the papers?

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 04:08 PM

Someone who works in the Bush administration (in the White House), leaked information that exposed the wife (Valerie Plame) of someone in the government (last name Wilson, I forget his first name) who had criticized some of the "intelligence" the Bush administration was using as justification for the invasion of Iraq, as an undercover CIA operative. The White House official who did this supposedly did it to punish Wilson for criticizing the Bush administration.

This leak exposed Ms. Plame, and possibly other CIA operatives to personal risk, as well as compromising her sources, and it effectively ended Ms. Plame's carreer in this kind of work.

The White House official who leaked this information (to at least three journalists), committed a felony when he/she did this.

The journalists did not break any laws, even the only one of the three who actually reported the leaked information. However, the government agency that is investigating the leak wants these journalists to name the person or people who committed this felony.

One of the journalists, Robert Novak, is not being reported on in the News (that I have seen, anyway). He is the only one of the three who published the information about Ms. Plame.

The other two were not willing to reveal the identity of the leaker because they say they need to protect the confidentiality of their sources.

Of of the two has since indicated he is willing to reveal the source because his source has signed a waiver releasing the reporter from his confidentiality agreement.

The other reporter, Judith Miller, has said she will not reveal the identity of her source. She has been declared in contempt of court for this, and the presiding judge has ordered her to go to jail until she talks.

Hope that helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 04:11 PM

Good summary, CarolC.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 04:38 PM

Carl Rove can not be touched because:

The law Bush (the father) put in place to protect covert CIA agents states that to be guilty one must know that the CIA agent is covert.
All Rove has to say is "I didn't know"

Novak could be subject to purgery charges depending upon what all the other witnesses told the grand jury.

This potential treason investigation is being reduced to a "who fibbed trial".

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 06:46 PM

Why go after Novak and Rove when you can bust a couple of "liberal press" types in their place...

Karl Rove thinkin' at it's best!!!

Talk "personal responsibilty" but don't actually live it fir yerself... Typical Bushite thinkin'...

Normal, business as usaul with these current batch of crooks, liars and whores...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 06:53 PM

I'd sure love to know exactly what Rove or whomever said to the journalists. I hope we find out.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 06:53 PM

"purgery charges"...ohhh...I like the sound of that!

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: GUEST,GUEST,George the Third
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 07:06 PM

Thanks for the summary.

Something of an allegory for our own whistleblower legislation.

The court of star chamber comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: kendall
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 07:36 PM

You saw what happened to Dan Rather for being wrong. Of course we know that wasn't the problem, that goes back to when he asked hard questions of Bush one.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: jaze
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 08:17 PM

Only during a Republican administration.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 08:54 PM

Dan Rather* got off a lot easier than Paul Wellstone.

Bush1 referred to Paul as "chickenshit".


*meanwhile there still isn't a single witness to place Bush jr. in the National Guard after he went awol to do "campaigning".

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:16 PM

Good point, Donuel.... Great work bu Karl "The Crook" Rove on killin' off both Dan Rather and the story.... Fine hatchet work... Musts got up real early that day to eht the hatchet that sharp to kill off a good guy and protect the Crook in Chief...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:28 PM

The free press is just as dead under Democrat presidents as it is under Republican ones. Consider the lies told by Johnson and passed on to us by the press about Vietnam. The news media have been acting as a propaganda arm of corporate interests and the government for a long, long time. As have the academic institutions.

One of my college professors (intro to business) told the class... "our approach to the Market is called 'laissez fair' (hands off)". Hahahahahahahaha...

And then there's "Columbus discovered America", and "manifest destiny". LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:45 PM

July 7, 2005
The New York Times
Editorial
Judith Miller Goes to Jail
This is a proud but awful moment for The New York Times and its
employees. One of our reporters, Judith Miller, has decided to accept
a jail sentence rather than testify before a grand jury about one of
her confidential sources. Ms. Miller has taken a path that will be
lonely and painful for her and her family and friends. We wish she
did not have to choose it, but we are certain she did the right thing.

She is surrendering her liberty in defense of a greater liberty,
granted to a free press by the founding fathers so journalists can
work on behalf of the public without fear of regulation or
retaliation from any branch of government.

The Press and the Law

Some people - including, sadly, some of our colleagues in the news
media - have mistakenly assumed that a reporter and a news
organization place themselves above the law by rejecting a court
order to testify. Nothing could be further from the truth. When
another Times reporter, M. A. Farber, went to jail in 1978 rather
than release his confidential notes, he declared, "I have no such
right and I seek none."

By accepting her sentence, Ms. Miller bowed to the authority of the
court. But she acted in the great tradition of civil disobedience
that began with this nation's founding, which holds that the common
good is best served in some instances by private citizens who are
willing to defy a legal, but unjust or unwise, order.

This tradition stretches from the Boston Tea Party to the Underground
Railroad, to the Americans who defied the McCarthy inquisitions and
to the civil rights movement. It has called forth ordinary citizens,
like Rosa Parks; government officials, like Daniel Ellsberg and Mark
Felt; and statesmen, like Martin Luther King. Frequently, it falls to
news organizations to uphold this tradition. As Justice William O.
Douglas wrote in 1972, "The press has a preferred position in our
constitutional scheme, not to enable it to make money, not to set
newsmen apart as a favored class, but to bring to fulfillment the
public's right to know."

Critics point out that even presidents must bow to the Supreme Court.
But presidents are agents of the government, sworn to enforce the
law. Journalists are private citizens, and Ms. Miller's actions are
faithful to the Constitution. She is defending the right of Americans
to get vital information from news organizations that need not fear
government retaliation - an imperative defended by the 49 states that
recognize a reporter's right to protect sources.

A second reporter facing a possible jail term, Matthew Cooper of Time
magazine, agreed yesterday to testify before the grand jury. Last
week, Time decided, over Mr. Cooper's protests, to release documents
demanded by the judge that revealed his confidential sources. We were
deeply disappointed by that decision.

We do not see how a newspaper, magazine or television station can
support a reporter's decision to protect confidential sources even if
the potential price is lost liberty, and then hand over the notes or
documents that make the reporter's sacrifice meaningless. The point
of this struggle is to make sure that people with critical
information can feel confident that if they speak to a reporter on
the condition of anonymity, their identities will be protected. No
journalist's promise will be worth much if the employer that stands
behind him or her is prepared to undercut such a vow of secrecy.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: freda underhill
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 08:28 AM

The scalp the prosecutor took: a reporter in jail
By Mark Coultan Herald Correspondent in New York
July 9, 2005, sydney morning herald

On Thursday night Judith Miller, a reporter for The New York Times , spent her first night in a US federal jail. A Time magazine reporter, Matthew Cooper, who had kissed his six-year-old son goodbye that morning, believing he was going to jail, slept in his bed. A Chicago Tribune syndicated columnist, Robert Novak, went about his business, apparently unhindered.

What links the three is that they all had conversations with their sources about a CIA agent called Valerie Plame.

Two years ago Novak revealed that Ms Plame was a CIA operative. He did it in a column about her husband, Joseph Wilson, a former US ambassador who had been sent to Niger in 2002 to investigate whether Iraq had bought uranium for its nuclear weapons program.

Mr Wilson had reported that the Niger intelligence was untrue. But President George Bush still used it as evidence of Saddam Hussein's nuclear ambitions in his 2003 State of the Union Address.

A few days before Novak's article appeared, in the aftermath of the Iraq invasion when no weapons of mass destruction had been found, Mr Wilson wrote an article for The New York Times saying that he had told the Administration the Niger intelligence was not true, but that it had still been included in the case for war. One interpretation of Novak's column appeared to be a payback for revealing the lies of the Administration. Novak wrote: "Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame is an agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate." Mr Wilson's wife had worked undercover for years, although there is little evidence that she got him the assignment in Niger.

But Novak's column was more than just payback. It can be a federal crime to reveal the identity of a CIA agent.

For 18 months a special prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, has been investigating whether a crime was committed in revealing Ms Plame's identity. So far his only scalp is that of Miller, who, it should be noted, conducted interviews but never wrote a story.

Matthew Cooper's Time article, appearing three days after Novak's, said administration officials had declared war on Mr Wilson. Cooper escaped jail only because he got a call from his source on the morning of his court appearance releasing him from keeping his identity confidential.

And Novak? He says he has been told by his lawyer not to comment, but the fact that he has not been threatened with jail suggested he has done a deal with the special prosecutor. Novak promises to reveal all after it's over. Miller's jailing has led to calls for federal laws for the protection of journalists' sources. But it is not even clear whether a crime has been committed. The law against revealing a CIA agent is written to stop CIA personnel revealing secrets.

The New York Times has now reported that Cooper's source was Karl Rove, Mr Bush's deputy chief of staff and his closest political adviser. This was no surprise as Mr Rove, who has a long history of going for the throat of politicial opponents, has been the chief suspect all along.

The documentary, Bush's Brain (Mr Rove's nickname) claimed that Mr Rove was once sacked from Ronald Reagan's 1980 presidential campaign for leaking. The journalist who got the leak? Robert Novak.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America's free press dead???
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 08:41 AM

Notice that the central figures in the story are all reporters...

Like I said. Nice, work, Karl. Now which one is going to take the bullet for him is the question...