BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP

Subject: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 09:29 AM

On NPR Morning Edition a story about how the Bush administration is treating scientists who produce findings that are at odds with current political "thinking".

When atmospheric scientists released findings about the current CO2 levels having a direct connection to climate change, a new congressional commitee demanded an information request designed to become a full time occupation for the offending scientist. Furthermore the enforcement of the Congressional information request is tied to any future goverment funding or special publishing rights.

This is similar to the new program that NIH scientists face if they disagree with any drug company findings. The offending scientist must face a tribunal with ombudsmen appointed by the Bush administration to decide if the claims of the scientist have any validity.

What we have here are little special courts deciding matters that are akin to a Kansas schoolboard deciding evolution policy. But it is a bit more subtle. The offending scientist will be made to suffer by satisfying a deluge of special requests and judgemental councils by the goverment. If they want to open themselves to months of extra goverment paperwork and possible loss of funding or worse they are FREE to continue whatever research they desire.

The message is to not mess with Pharmaceutical companies or the energy cartels.

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 09:54 AM

Barton, with close ties to energy corporations said "I don't see what all the SQUEALING is about. Scientists will have to abide to the same rules as the rest of us."

link
npr.org
search Barton. Morning edition

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 10:07 AM

If I may digress for just a few seconds here...

I think the best way is to show them some really good photos of naked women. That usually works.

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:04 PM

naaawww, LH..not for the real GOOD scientists...those are the ones whose wives complain of neglect...*grin*

But, yeah....I can the Republicans pulling something like this.

"That research doesn't FIT with my notion of what ought to be looked at, and I don't like the preliminary answers, as they are awkward, against my religious beliefs, and may cost my constituents $$$...go and do a study of the relationship of prune pits to bulldogs, and report it in Sanskirt...to the Kansas Board of Education."

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:09 PM

Our government is doing something similar here with the courts, along the lines of I don't like your politics, judge, so I'll accuse you of child abuse. and i'll hire a whoile lot of lawyers who are prepared to argue, sincerely, that pink is blue.

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:11 PM

Only a flippin' idiot would say pink is blue.

- BDiBR

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: GUEST,Professor Ponsonby
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:16 PM

Just as pink may be blue, young Shane, so inevitably, if scientists are not politically castrated, so then, pigs will fly.

Xenotransplantation has the potential to deliver an unlimited supply of organs for transplantation. However, this promise has yet to translate into clinical application, despite substantial research efforts in the last decade. Although increasing numbers of studies are being performed in relevant pre-clinical (pig-to-primate) transplantation models, so far these have highlighted the apparent elusiveness of long-term xenograft survival. Humoral rejection remains the main obstacle to success, but control of T cell-mediated rejection will be a problem in the future and there are major concerns about the possible transmission of porcine endogenous retroviruses (PERV) and other infectious agents. This article reviews recent advances in the understanding of acute vascular rejection (AVR), acute T cell-mediated rejection and PERV transmission and highlights some of the strategies that may prove successful in overcoming these problems. Although progress has been slow, the promise of an inexhaustible supply of organs is sufficient reason to continue research in these areas. Assuming the specific problem of AVR can be ameliorated by one of a number of strategies currently under investigation, there are grounds to believe that xenotransplantation will become a clinical reality. Pig xenografts, currently grounded, might eventually fly!

regards

Professor Ponsonby

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: GUEST,Flippin' Idiot
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:19 PM

But Pink IS Blue isnt it ??

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:23 PM

The Parable of the Swimming Pool,
Or, Why Semantics Matter

--

Background: A group of people sitting around a table. They're in
charge of building a swimming pool. It is a well-known fact that white
swimming pools reflect the color of the sky and the water takes on the
color of the sky. The people in question are named One, Two, Three,
Four, Five, and Six.

One: okay, so do what color do we want the water in the swimming pool
to look?

ALL: blue.

Two: okay, so if we paint the bottom of the pool white, the water will
look blue.

Three: no, the water will look clear.

Two: no, we already agreed that white reflects the color of the sky.
And the sky is blue.

Four: I thought the sky was pink.

One: No, it's blue. Right?

Four: I guess so. Okay, the sky is blue.

One: So Two's suggestion then is that we paint the pool white, so the
water will look blue. Right?

ALL: Right.

One: Do we buy that?

ALL: Sure.

One: Okay. Moving on.

--- later ---

One: So let's go over what we've decided. First, we're going to paint
the pool white ---

Four: But that's going to make the water look pink!

Two: No, it's going to be take on the color of the sky.

Four: Right.

Two: So what's the problem?

Four: That means it'll be pink.

Two: Huh? We all agreed the sky was blue.

Four: Right.

Two: And...

Four: So the water will look pink.

Two: Okay. Let's try this again. Four, is the sky blue?

Four: Yes.

Two. Four, is the sky pink?

Four: Yes.

Two: What? It's either blue or pink. It isn't both.

Four: Blue is pink.

Two: (pushes palms into eyes, makes low moaning sound.)

ALL BUT FOUR: Huh?

Two: (foreceful) No, Four, blue is blue. Pink is pink. They're
entirely different.

Four: Okay, fine, blue. Can we move on?

Five: What if it's orange?

One: (puzzled) What?

Five: What if the water in the pool looks orange?

One: Well, then something weird's going on. Maybe somebody pissed in
the pool.

Three: no, that just makes purple rings around the culprit. PissAlert.

Four: Five, it won't be orange, it'll be pink.

ALL BUT FOUR: (exasperated) Four, get off the pink is blue thing,
okay?

Four: Okay.

Two: STOP!

ALL BUT TWO: (shift uncomfortably in seats, look uneasy.)

Two: WAIT!

One: (glaring at Two, wishing he'd handle this more delicately)

Two: Do we all agree that blue isn't pink, the sky is blue, and
painting the pool white will make the water look blue?

Four: Sure. It's all semantics.

Two: (bites tongue hard, flinches)

Six: Is this a training pool or a play pool?

One: Play pool.

Six: How deep is it?

One: 8' deep end, 4' shallow.

Six: No diving board?

Two: (getting loud) What the --- what does that have to do w/ the
color ---

Five: (mutters) Index of refraction...?

One: Two, zip it. Six, No.

Six: Okay, that sounds about right.

One: Okay now, can we go over the construction plans?

Four: Sure. For the pink pool.

Two: (exasperated) Aaargh! Wait a sec, I want to make sure Four is
on-board.

Four: I'm down w/ this. You're just being difficult.

Two: Okay, let's test that. Are we building a pink pool or a blue one?

Four: We've covered that.

Two: C'mon, answer the question.

Four: It's the same thing.

Two: No, it's not. Right, everybody?

ALL BUT FOUR: Right.

Two: Four, it's a blue pool. The sky is blue. White makes the water
reflect the color of the sky. Got it?

Four: Whatever you say, Daddy-O.

Five: Three said the pool would be clear if we painted it white?

One: We got past that.

Five: Oh, okay.

Six: I'm sorry, I'm out of time. Can we schedule a follow-up meeting?

Four: Pink pool, pink pool, pink pool...

Two: (head explodes)

(Exeunt.)

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:29 PM

LOL! I figure Shane is getting kind of woozy at this point...

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:33 PM

Sky-Blue Pink (was my mother's favorite color)

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:34 PM

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same
god who has endowed us with sense, reason and
   intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
                                                                                                                     —Galileo

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:38 PM

Galileo didn't have to contend with Sen. Rick Santorum and buddies.

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:43 PM

No, the Inquisition was a little more reasonable than these guys..

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:45 PM

one of my all time favorite cartoons, which I didn't save, unfortunately:

There is a cartoon strip called "Hagar the Horrible", about a silly Viking type with very modern problems. One Sunday saw him visiting the local wizard, Dr. Zook, who had a huge stone ring leaning against the wall, like that 'money' on Yap Island.

"What's this?", asks Hagar.
"That's my new scientific measuring device." replys Dr. Zook, "Step in!"
....so Hagar squirms into the center of the stone ring....

"More...hunch down...squeeze tighter..." Zook says, as Hagar tries to cram himself into the tight space. Finally, he is in, awkwardly peering out at the pleased wizard.

"There!", says Dr. Zook with authority, "You are exactly 5 feet tall!"

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 01:52 PM

The danger is not in allowing all manner of eejits to sound off -- in fact that's desirable -- but in stifling those that contest eejotic soundings.

BTW, I'm sometimes blue.

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 01:53 PM

A splendid example, Bill.

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Micca
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 04:06 PM

One word, "Lysenko"

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Micca
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 04:10 PM

Look Here

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: GUEST,Fullerton
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 04:45 PM

When asked to describe a colour of unusual hue my uncle would describe it as

sky blue pink with a finny'addy* border.

* fin and haddock - some obcure scouse seafood.

sorry to interupt...

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 05:47 PM

Can't you just make a rude retort?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Rumncoke
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 05:56 PM

Finnian Haddock - smoked haddock from Scotland - though maybe originally Finnish.

It was 'sky blue pink with yellow dots' on in my family.

Anne

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 06:08 PM

Fenian haddock's green.

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 08:00 PM

When a leading psychologist like Harvard's Howard Gardner calls the president's science adviser a "prostitute," it's a safe bet that all is not well in the realm of government science policy. Indeed, in the past month, the United States has been engulfed by a kind of "science war," one pitting much of the nation's scientific community against the current administration. Led by twenty Nobel laureates, the scientists say Bush's government has systematically distorted and undermined scientific information in pursuit of political objectives. Examples include the suppression and censorship of reports on subjects like climate change and mercury pollution, the stacking of scientific advisory panels, and the suspicious removal of scientific information from government Web sites.

from The New Science Wars - Chris Mooney; March 15, 2004

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 08:01 PM

I believe that should be Finnon Haddock, caught in a particular area.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 08:04 PM

And besides the Waxman and UCS reports, there are still other analyses documenting the Bush administration's abuses of science. For example, consider scienceinpolicy.org, a Web site that focuses exclusively on the environmental arena. The site details distortions and misrepresentations on issues ranging from climate change to debates on drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Along with policy analyses, it contains the following statement:

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 08:10 PM

a recent chronology of the treatment of science and scientists by the Bush Admin

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 08:30 PM

"Statement
The Bush administration justifies environmental policies by misusing and misrepresenting science. The administration's harmful positions on climate change, pollution, forest management, and resource extraction ignore widely accepted scientific evidence. When the administration invokes science, it relies on research at odds with the scientific consensus, and contradicts, undermines, or suppresses the research of its own scientists. Furthermore, the administration cloaks environmentally damaging policies under misleading program names like "clear skies" and "healthy forests." As a result, the public and the media often wrongly believe that this administration uses sound science to help promote a healthy environment. In reality, the best available science indicates that President Bush's policies will cause and exacerbate damage to the natural systems on which we all depend."

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 08:30 PM

oh, Frieda, those are just the tip of the iceberg....I personally know a high official at EPA who says they are just flatly doing no 'protecting' of the environment anymore. He has been given to understand that his 'opinions' on policy are not really sought--policy is delivered TO the agency these days, and they merely parrot the official line...or say nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 08:50 PM

yeah, Amos...like that

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 09:34 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_evolution_hearings


btw Amos, where's that statement from?

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Kaleea
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 11:57 PM

Jeepers. Th' guv'ment soopressus research? Awww, who'd beeleeve sich a reedikyewluss thayng like thet? Fetch m' jug, pleeze, & m' gun, too! Thank yee kindlee. And thar ain't nuttin' wrong wif' terbaccee neether--the giv'ment sez so! Ah memberz thet frum nigh on ta 50 yarz ago. T'was in all them thar payperz. Din't all y'all reed it?    Th' guv'ment lie? Horss hockey!

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 03:05 AM

If the Goverment prevents scientists from saying things that they don't want to hear, then a fair number will move abroad and say it from there.
Scientists most often move due to funding, or lack of it, and acceptance of their science, or lack of it.

In Britian, there is the funding for medical research, but a coupling of very strict rules, and 'animal rights' terrorists make animal experiments very hard to perform, which forces much research abroard.

Is the US Goverment about to do the same in a large number of fields?

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 10:49 AM

yes freida we have a Nobel Prize Fight on our hands

Subject: RE: BS: How to make scientists SHUT UP
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 08:35 PM

Scientists are also warning about the intended use of a new laser gun. The pentagon plans to use this microwave shooter for crowd control in Iraq. During tests, subjects were told to remove their glasses and contact lenses as well as any metal (coins and jewelry). Can you imagine the pain if you couldn't get out of the way?

Seems like military might is much more important than scientific sense.