Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes

Subject: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 06:47 AM

Weston, Robert P.:

I'm a Navvy ... [Song.] Written and composed by R. P. Weston and F. J. Barnes. [Staff and tonic sol-fa notation.].

    London : Francis, Day & Hunter, [1913].

Any suggestions anyone.

I am trying to see if this the song I have some words to or a different one. If you surf for this song title you may get my website.

It is the specific song above I seek.

TIA

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barne
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 06:26 PM

Mr Red, could you be a bit more specific? I remember a song starting something like

'I'm a poor English navvy that works on the line
The first place I'm at was Newcastle-on-Tyne ...'

Is this the one you're looking for? If yo, I could dig up the lyrics, or perhaps they are in the DT.

Subject: ADD: The Bold English Navvy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 09:13 PM

Well, there's this:

The Bold English Navvy
^^^ (trad?)

I'm a bold English navvy that works on the line
An' the best place I met wis Newcastle-on-Tyne
I wis tired, sick and weary while working all day
To a cot down on the hillside I'm makin' my way

I firsta had a wash and then had a shave
For courting my true love I was highly prepared
The moon in the skies, and the stars, they shone down
And I hit for the road wi' my navvy boots on

I knocked on my love's window, my knock she did know
And out of her slumbers she woked so slow
I knocked her again and she says: "Is that you, John?"
"Yes, indeed, it is me with my navvy boots on"

She opened the door and then let me in
It was to her bedroom she called me then
Well the night being warm and the blankets rolled down
So I jumped into bed with my navvy boots on

Early next morning at the break of the day
I says to my true love: "It's time to go away"
"Sleep down, sleep down, for you know you've done wrong
For to sleep here all night with your navvy boots on"

Six months being over and seven months being past
This pretty fair maid she grew stout round the waist
Seven months being over and nine come along
And he hands me a young son with his navvy boots on

Come all you pretty fair maids take heed what I've said
Never let a navvy come into your bed
For when he gets warm he'll take a leap on
And he'll jump on your bones with his navvy boots on


As sung by the late, great Jimmy McBeath on the Topic record "Wild Rover No More". He picked this song up while singing on Merseyside in 1966. In Aberdeenshire it is more usually sung as "Wi' his coortin' coat on", but it has been adapted to suit various trades; the rural workers making it "Wi' his cattle coat", the miners "Wi' his pit boots" and a recent version has the hero wearing "McAlpine's boots". See also Navvy Boots.


Source: http://www.kinglaoghaire.com/site/lyrics/song_45.html

Also see John Mehlberg's Site for a recording clip and transcription from the Alan Lomax Songs of Seduction CD - but a better transcription is included in the Digital Tradition as Navvy Boots (2).

Subject: ADD: I'm a Navvy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 09:48 PM

Then there's a pace-egging song I found in this pdf file.

I'm a navvy I'm a navvy on the railwayline,
four & twenty bob a week & workin' over time
roast pork, boiled ham, sausage made wi' eggs,
Here comes a navvy wi' a pair o' sausage legs
I can use a pick & spade,
I can shove a little wagon up
a brew brew brew, & when I get t' top
I can sup a bottle of pop
and work till me shirt's wet through

pop shop = pawnbroker
pop = beer
brew = hill
sausage legs = bow legs

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 10:34 PM

G'day Mr Red, Joe & Susanne,

Joe's second offering is interesting to me ... it's obviously the source (or shares a source with) the first half of a ditty of Australian railway navvies, which was collected here as A Navvy on the Line. The second half seems to have migrated from a version of The Cuckoo's Nest:

I'm a ripper, I'm a nipper, I'm a navvy on the line.
I get four & twenty bob a week, besides my overtime.
All the ladies love a navvy - and the navvies love their fun ...
There'll be plenty little babies when the railway's done.

    Some like the girls, who are slender in the waist,
    Other like the girls who are pretty in the face -
    But give me the girl who'll take in her fist ...
    And shove it right on home into the cuckoo's nest!

The tune was a popular one for the Barn Dance ... and John Meredith, who collected it, recollected that the men at a dance used to request the tune "... then dance around with silly smirks on their faces ...".

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 10:37 PM

That's from "Mr Red's" own website, but you weren't to know he is "cresby"; and that he still hasn't grasped the golden rule for asking questions intelligently: tell us what you already know. It will focus the discussion more clearly, and people won't waste their time posting songs which are irrelevant (Navvy Boots) or which come from your own blasted website!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 10:47 PM

I couldn't get through for a few minutes there, so my post, for what it's worth, should be taken as following Joe's in order to make sense. Thanks to Bob for the follow-up to Navvy on the Line.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 04:35 AM

Tom Woottwell's Komic Songs, but it doesn't include this.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 04:38 AM

(Sorry about that - I seemed to mistype the preview).

Kilgarriff's updated artist repertoire shows the song as being sung by Tom Woottwell. The National Library of Australia has an album of Woottwell songs:Tom Woottwell's Komic Song Album, but it doesn't include this.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 05:32 AM

Bob Bolton thanks - obviously related. Any further clues to where I can chase this up? The versions in pome land seem to be not well documented - but a bit more now.

Susanne (skw) - thank - I am sure that was THE song which I was trying to eliminate. There is a version lurking in Farnham Common (people from Accrington, Lancs) which I am trying to get documented.

Joe - you got the website of a very shy modest folk slueth who I know well. **BG**.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: R. Padgett
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 08:26 AM

Two more Navvy songs are:

The Bold Navigators and The Navvy Boy

also Birmingham lads (Uk)and Manchester ship canal and the Tommy note

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 06:50 AM

Thanks.

Ultimately I want to eliminate Navvy songs from any relationship with the one I have. Bob Bolton seems to have given one that is related and may even hint at a common root and one can only guess at the chronology. I would say four and twenty bob a week was an indicator of that. 20th century maybe. Anyone know how much Navigators were paid in the canal, or rail or later eras?
When did the term navvy devolve from navigator?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 07:17 AM

Malcolm Douglas

The question, as posed, was very very very specific. The title is your clue. I am not entirely sure it has been answered. However the vagueness you percieve has elicited a version which is clearly related . And for that I am rewarded. I have used the information.

I have found over the years that if you spell-out the question you have spelled-out the answer. People are confused with too much detail. I don't always miss an opportunity at self promotion but this time I did. I don't expect people to go looking on my behalf and am always pleasantly surprised when someone else sees interest in what I am doing.

Thankyou very much 'catters. It is what I love about the 'cat.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 07:27 PM

I'm sure you don't expect me to agree. The question was indeed specific, but failed to tell us what you already had or had already excluded. As a result, Joe wasted his time posting an irrelevant song and a copy of what you already had on your website.

You've got some useful information from Bob, but we have no idea, so far, whether or not there's any connection with the 1913 song; unless there's something else you know that you haven't told us.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barne
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 12:42 AM

Hi, Mr. Red - since the beginning of Mudcat in 1996, our commonly held rules of fair play have been that if you ask for something, you should give us what you already have first. It's a cooperative give-and-take here, ya know.
It was interesting learning about this song, but knowing what you know would have been helpful.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: GUEST,Jim Ward
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 06:17 AM

Courtesy of Charles Keeping-

I'm a navvy, I'm a navvy,working on the line,
I get five and twenty bob a week and all me overtime,
Pease Pudding and gravy, ev'ry dinner time,
That's what a navvy gets for working on the line

I'm a navvy, I'm a navvy,working on the line,
Chopping up the worms and making one worm into nine,
Some jobs are rotten jobs and some jobs are fine,
When you're a navvy, you're a navvy, working on the line.

This is certainly in the style of Weston and Barnes and Tom Wootwell

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 04:56 PM

Probably closely related, difficult to see which spawned which but I suspect we have a folk process. The line number and scansion are different.

Joe - maybe I am not thinking straight, but I was focussed. I didn't have the specific lyrics I was requesting, and I suspected they were not the same as the ones I have, and I was asking for an elimination - as I thought - maybe not entirely if Jim Ward's Lyrics are the ones I was seeking.

If I was asking for related lyrics I would have posted but I asked the question I wanted the answer to everything else is consequential. OK next time I will run the Little Hawke Gauntlet of pedantry...................

Thanks for all your help. Keep it coming.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: GUEST,Mr Red at college
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 08:17 AM

I have requested the John Meredith book in case there is more background info - and Mike Harding's (UK not NZ) book on Songs of Lancashire. In pursuance of the more data on the pace-egging song. Will post when more info is found (like the 50's version I have been promised).

The Weston & Barnes song can be obtained (at a cost) from the Bodleain catalogue (OLIS) &/or British Library - but how many photocopies of songsheets does it take to eliminate unrelated songs? Hence this request. I have no more data. Hiss & Boo Company & Music Hall Society as well as the Kilgariff site have been searched.

FWIW despite Google's intentions with the Bodleain - it cannot penetrate either catalogue - yet.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 09:05 AM

G'day Mr Red,

I have Folk Songs of Australia and the men and women who sang them, John Meredith & Hugh Anderson, Ure Smith Pty Ltd, North Sydney, 1967 (no ISBN ... in those days - but Lib. of Congress Catalog Card No. 68-15181!) in front of me. Navvy on the Line is on page 217, with a brief note on p. 216 (part of a 10-page entry on the Blackman Family - the song being collected from Tom Blackman) on the song and its background.

This entry gives pretty much the same information I gave from memory in my 06 Aug 05 - 10:34 PM posting. I could pursue the matter of more detailed info ... or more background on the Meredith Collection tapes - via Rob Willis, who worked with John in later years and now collects for the National Library of Australia. However, I know that John did not allow much tape for background and reminiscences ... as he was already spending half his disposable income on reel-to-reel tape for his personally-funded collecting expeditions!

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 07:43 PM

Errr... G'day again,

I realise I shopuld clarify my last sentance! I meant to include a date ... indicating that my remarks applied only to the econimics of John's 1950s/'60s collecting period:

" ... I know that John did not allow much tape for background and reminiscences back in his first collecting period... as he was already spending half his disposable income on reel-to-reel tape for his personally-funded collecting expeditions!"

In later years, with some assistance for materials (partly from the Bush Music Club) and then full support from the National Library of Australia, John always aimed to get as much background information onto tape as the informant could give.

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 11:03 AM

Thanks Bob - I will get the book in due course - the Library service is slow round here. When I have digested what it says - I may prevail but till then I don't really have a handle on the importance of the Ozzie version, though I would link it in true Child fashion.

I have a huge PDF of mine and collected songs that is bloating even as we speak - with data culled from pages like this. Thanks. I will copyright with an ISBN (I have 9 unused and they work on CD-ROMs) And lodge a copy with the R V-W library.

I decided to document the links I have been using in various contexts so I now have a list of URL's including Malcolm's South Riding page.
everyone and his brother has a page of links so my direct links are what I found useful in most cases some not seen elsewhere on lists. Plus a lot of link listing pages.

I have more yet to add from today. see Mr Red's Links page but wait a day for a better list.

One yielded a dozen "Navvy on the line/shore" tunes that didn't seem to have any lyrics.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I'm a Navvy by R.P.Weston & F.J.Barnes
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 10:53 AM

refresh
Mr Red's Links page now updated with comments.