BS: Ukrainians...'You've been tangoed'

Subject: BS: Ukrainians...'You've been tangoed'
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 07:30 PM

Ukraine's orange revolution, much praised and lauded by the right here on Mudcat has turned out to be a bit of a "lemon".

Mr Yushchenko has today sacked his whole govt, amid claims of massive corruption, much worse than the pevious administration.

Mrs Tymoshenko and MrZinchenko, architects of the Orange Revolution are considering joining the "Old Guard" opposition, because of the corruption and economic miss-managment.

Looking back to the heady days of the Orange Revolution and the triumphalism of Doug and his friends over the victory of "democracy", reminds me of the advice given to me as a boy, from my old uncle.

"If ye believe aw ye hear, Ye'll eat aw ye see"

Subject: RE: BS: Ukrainians...'You've been tangoed'
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 04:10 AM

The importance of the Orange Revolution lies in more than the immediate results.

Subject: RE: BS: Ukrainians...'You've been tangoed'
From: Paul Burke
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 04:39 AM

Now we'll see the real test of the West's commitment to democracy: will this turn out like Kyrgizstan (West failed that test)? Did all those people really risk their lives just to install a different (West- approved) plutocracy?

Is our objection to dictators merely that they don't support us?

Subject: RE: BS: Ukrainians...'You've been tangoed'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 04:59 AM

Is our objection to dictators merely that they don't support us?

Depends what you mean by "our". Rephrase that question "Is their objection to dictators merely that they don't support them?", "them" being our rulers and our owners, and the answer is pretty self-evident, I'd say.

Subject: RE: BS: Ukrainians...'You've been tangoed'
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 06:29 AM

What a stupid attempt to picture that revolution and the reaction upon it in terms of right and left. The election had been a massive cheat and the people did not take it calmly. The revolution made sure that the actual winner of the election became president.

Whatever happens after an election is no good reason to opt in hindsight for cheating at the elections.

I get sometimes fed up with people here looking at everything in terms of right and left instead of in terms of right and wrong.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Ukrainians...'You've been tangoed'
From: Paul Burke
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 06:34 AM

Who said anything about right and left?

Subject: RE: BS: Ukrainians...'You've been tangoed'
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 04:48 PM

Western values being brought into question??
Doug!!   Doug!!   where art thou....Ake.

Subject: RE: BS: Ukrainians...'You've been tangoed'
From: Cobble
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 05:35 PM

Well said Wolfgang.

Cobble.

Subject: RE: BS: Ukrainians...'You've been tangoed'
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 05:39 PM

I agree, Wolfgang.

Subject: RE: BS: Ukrainians...'You've been tangoed'
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 05:57 PM

Do you people not read the papers or listen to the news?

We in the UK have a "democracy" hundreds of years old over the last few weeks it has been discovered the seats in the legislature can still be secretly bought for donations to party funds!!

Get real people, Democracy as we know it is a gigantic con.
Power rules and in our "democracy" power means money....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Ukrainians...'You've been tangoed'
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 06:09 PM

The UK is a monarchy, not a democracy. There isn't any true democracy that I know of anywhere in the world (the US is a republic).

Subject: RE: BS: Ukrainians...'You've been tangoed'
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 04:32 AM

We in the UK have a "democracy" hundreds of years old over the last few weeks it has been discovered the seats in the legislature can still be secretly bought for donations to party funds!! (Akenaton)

Now what has this to do with the Ukraine??
Or is it a plea to scrap democracy worldwide because even in democracy things happen that should not happen??

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Ukrainians...'You've been tangoed'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 03:24 PM

My impression was that we were being sold a packaged and pre-digested version of what was actually happening, and that things were a great deal more complicated than the media were making out.

The same thing is happening in regard to Belarus now.

The democratic process never guarantees that the guys who win will be the good guys, still less that there will actually be any good guys in the first place. And there's not even any guarantee that the winners will be the people who get the most votes, as has been demonstrated in the USA and the UK among other places.

The most you can say really is that it reduces the risk of civil wars - and as Iraq is showing currently, that doesn't always work either.