Evesham stick dance

Subject: Evesham Stick Dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 01:59 PM

Just discovered this great tune in Johhn Kirkpatrick's book of tunes called English Choice. It is used by Shropshire Bedlam's for the dance of that name.

Does anybody have any idea of the origin of the tune and or the dance?

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 03:08 PM

Manitas says it should be in the 'Black Book' (the Morris/sword dancers' Bible) but he can't lay his hand on his copy at the moment....

LTS

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 03:24 PM

Quoted from the Handbook of Morris Dances, by Lionel Bacon, (C)1974

"There is information, both in MSS and also in Jour EFDSS Dec 1963 (E C Cawte) as to two Evesham dances - a Stick dance and a Handkerchief dance. As work is still proceeding on the MSS, and there is a proposal to publish the dance in EDS, they are not further considered here."

I would suggest contacting Cecil Sharp House to see if they were indeed published in EDS, and trying to trace a back copy, or track down a more up to date version of Bacon's book.

You could also try the Bedlams' website or ask JK next time you see him.

LTS

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: JohnB
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 04:25 PM

It's one that we Orange Peel Morris do. However I don't fully remeber it's heritage.
I think that we got it from an old Silurian Morris video tape, some of which had been converted from 8mm or such.
The way we do it is with one stick in right hand and one Hanky in left hand, two lines of dancers facing each other, no specific quantity.
Sticking goes with an active and a passive side, the active side does a bycicle step whilst hitting their partners stick to a count of 1,2 123, 4,5,678, all odd sticking is towards the left and all even towards the right.
Stomping on spot, stomp right foot down and thrust right hand up then left foot down and left hand up in time with the music.
repeat sticking with same active side.
Repeat stomping, except this time move to partners position through eight beats, then thrust stick through under partners arm to their lower back and do a stick swing, in the process change from the active to the passive side and vici versa
Sticking with new active dancers.
Rounds form a circle of all dancers waving hankies in left hand with sticks on shoulders and dance off to the song Polly Wolly Doodle
The tune or some part of it is called Fanny Frail.
All from memory so trust what you will.
JohnB

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Snuffy
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 07:36 PM

More fully described in The Roots of Welsh Border Morris by Dave Jones, Apple Press, 1988/1995 ISBN 0 9526285 0 3. Suggested notation is:

One to yourself       8 bars A
Sticking             8 bars A
Dance on the Spot    8 bars B
Sticking             8 bars A
Cross Over            8 bars B
Sticking             8 bars A
Rounds                8 bars C
Finish by dancing off led by original No. 1

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 02:28 PM

Thanks to you all, as ever the Mudacat and the folkies have come up trumps. Does anybody know where John's tune, if it is his, comes from? It's a great little tune.

I did e-mail via John's web site but he does say something like It may be a while before I can reply.

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 03:17 PM

The A & B parts of "Fanny Frail" appear to be traditional, while the C music is an adaptation of the chorus of "Polly-Wolly-Doodle". No idea when the lot got joined together.

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Tradsinger
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 04:20 PM

The dance was collected by a J Hargreaves along with 2 tunes, one being a version of 'Bonnets so Blue' and the other 'Fanny Frail' which seems to end up with 'Polly-wolly-doodle'. So all traditional.

Gwilym

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 07:32 PM

Gwilym,

According to the Dave Jones book, Hargreaves collected two dances. The "Stick Dance" (actually 1 stick and 1 hanky) used Fanny Frail, while the "Hanky Dance" (2 hankies) was done to a version of Bonnets So Blue.

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Tradsinger
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 02:35 AM

Ah, that sounds right. I have a photocopy of the Hargreaves manuscript around somewhere. Anyway, the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library could supply it.

Gwilym

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Snuffy
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 09:29 AM

Roy Dommett says:

EVESHAM - col. by J. Hargreaves.
Music: Own tune "made up" by George Collins of Evesham

Although he doesn't specifically say so, one might assume that Dommett got the tune information from Hargreaves. Has the Fanny Frail tune been found elsewhere?

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 11:32 AM

So, George Collins Rode out one May Morning .....

......... and made up the tune now used for the Evesham stick dance? or did something else happen?

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 12:55 PM

I have learned this excellent little tune and I like to give credit and history where I can. I thought we were nearly there.

Anybody got a thought?

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 06:17 PM

I thought the people of the ring had a view on this............

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Snuffy
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 06:55 PM

From: Liz the Squeak Date: 03 Oct 05 - 03:24 PM. Quoted from the Handbook of Morris Dances, by Lionel Bacon, (C)1974 "... As work is still proceeding on the MSS, and there is a proposal to publish the dance in EDS, they are not further considered here."


I think that message states the Ring's view. Perhaps 31 years later they may choose to revise it. But perhaps not. Let's not be too hasty.

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 02:05 AM

It more likely represented Lionel Bacon's view. It may well have got into later versions of the book, I'm surprised no-one here has a copy.

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Snuffy
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 08:27 AM

I don't think the Black Book has ever been revised. Certainly the copy I bought from BFB in 1994 had not been.

But the Ring is now engaged on getting the Black Book onto the web, and I think they are taking the opportunity to amplify/correct it at the same time.

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 08:46 AM

Th copy I have is in binder form, the idea being that updates would be available to be slotted in. It was an aide memoire and always very much a work in progress.

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 01:44 PM

EVESHAM - col. by J. Hargreaves.
Eversham stick Dance
Music:
Own tune "made up" by George Collins of Evesham.

Set :
of ten men, five a side

Sticks:
short, held at bottom, and decorated.

Steps:
hopsteps, knee raised, foot not kicked forward, perhaps start with the right foot.

So who was George Collins?

This from a website

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 02:00 PM

'However, the highlight was meeting George Collins and Sam Dufty, two 82-year-olds who, as children, followed and imitated the Pershore Not-for-Joes dancing in the 20's and sang the songs along with the dances as we performed'

This from the Vancouver Morris Men website and trip to England.

Are we getting closer to the origin of the tune?

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 02:04 PM

http://www.vancouvermorrismen.org/tour01.html

This is the reference

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 12:03 PM

Hello, hello, where are the legion of the Ring?

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Snuffy
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 02:40 PM

try this

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 05:10 AM

The Tune is as published by Dommett (a relative of the 'Jenny Lind Polka), played a (oty) ababab...bccc...

Thanks Snuffy.

I think we have tracked it as far as George Collins presumably a dancer before the war whom the Vancouver MM met in 2000 and something.

Hargraves attributes it to him - that he made it up -anyone know anything else?

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 10:52 AM

Anyone?

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Selchie - (RH)
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 11:04 AM

Les,

PM'd you 17th Oct. Have just re-PM'd info for you to follow up. PM me your e-mail address if you don't receive my PM. I'll try to help further.

Good Luck,

Rosie S

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 02:48 PM

Thanks Selchie.

I have just had a look at the whole thread and as far as I can tell Hargreaves is the original source.

Does anybody know anything about Hargreaves or from whom he collected this great little tune?

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 03:09 PM

Jack Hargreaves met the survivors of the Evesham dance in 1940. In later years he was in a rest home voluntarily with day releases and his odd behaviour made it difficult to get on with him. He wrote to Ralph Vaughan Williams suggesting that he should arrange the Evesham tunes. When he visited the library at Cecil Sharp House he sat and played the piano and terrorised the librarian into asking for a male staff member to sit with them. He came one evening to the OUMM to attempt to teach the dances and after covering many pages with sketches, despite the dances being so simple, and he left them more confused than at the start!

Is this tantalizung or what?

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Selchie - (RH)
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 08:33 PM

It is tantalising Les & confusing, I have copies of all Hargreaves' letters relating tothe Evesham dances plus the Mummers' play performed around the Vale at Christmas.

I'll contact those who I know, met George Collins' daughter some years ago & hopefully they will discussed the origins of Fanny Frail.   

Rosie

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 02:31 PM

Does the above quote point to Hargreaves collecting Fanny Frail in the 1940's and that is the oldest and only real collection of the tune?

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 06:39 PM

Hello, come dancing if we can?

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 28 Oct 05 - 02:09 AM

Les, you might have more luck asking about this on the Morris Dance Discussion List.

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Oct 05 - 11:43 AM

Sounds lke a good idea -where's that then?

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Snuffy
Date: 28 Oct 05 - 12:01 PM

MDDL

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Selchie - (RH)
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 02:57 PM

Les,

Jack Hargreaves sent details of the words & tune Fanny Frail to Vaughan Williams in a letter dated Sept 1941 asking for that it be known as The Evesham Morris Dance ~ words & music by George Collins ~ collected by Jack Hargreaves. (May 1940).

He also said that both he & Mr Collins agreed that the dance was previously unknown.

The Evesham Handkerchief Dance (Bonnets So Blue) was also mentioned as collected at the same time.

Subject: RE: Evesham stick dance
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 01:12 PM

So, George Collins looks like the source!