are MIDI's postable?

Subject: are MIDI's postable?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 01:14 PM

I know that for a while it was not possible to post a MIDI to the Mudcat. Are the problems now fixed?

PS I am not really a guest.

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 08:20 PM

G'day leeneia,

Because of the old (inherited) structure of the Mudcat site itself, you can't simply "attach" any sort of file ... and the MIDItext program from Alan of Australia that posted MIDIs as a text string, that could be decoded by a TEXT-MIDI program, is "no longer supported".

However, if you send a relevant MIDI file (for a song posted to the Mudcat, or in the DT) to MMario - he will add it to the DT, if needed.

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 08:33 PM

Hi, Leeneia - I just checked just now, and MMario and I still can't get in to add Mudcat MIDIs. I'm saving them for when I'm able to upload them, but so far I haven't been able to. If somebody wants to offer a website where I can upload and store them temporarily and link to Mudcat, please let me know.
thanks.
-Joe Offer-
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 09:04 PM

What do you need Joe? A folder with ftp access?

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 09:14 PM

Ayup. Can you help, Jon?
Thanks.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 09:19 PM

Probably - Will email you.

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 11:59 PM

In the meantime, I will just describe what I did to the Halloween jig on the appropriate thread. thanks

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 12:11 AM

Joe: if for any reason Jon can't provide something, I will. All the midi links I've posted here in recent years still work, and there would be no problem setting up a dedicated directory with ftp access for you.

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 02:10 AM

Thanks, Malcolm. Jon already set me up, though, so we're all set and back in business. If you have MIDI files to submit, e-mail them to me. Be sure to give me the URL (address) of the thread the MIDI should be linked to.
Thanks a lot, Jon.
-Joe Offer-
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 12:27 PM

Now, if I did this right, Leeneia's tune should be available:

Click to play

Thanks a lot, Jon!
-Joe Offer-

---

Now, if I did this right, there should be a list of MIDI files here: Click

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: MMario
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 12:31 PM

worked for me joe!

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 10:53 PM

I've had some trouble getting stable access to a place for MIDI files, so I finally got my own Website for MIDIs and other supplemental material for Mudcat. If you have MIDI files, graphics, or whatever, please send them to me.

Thanks.

-Joe Offer-
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 03:05 AM

I've noticed that a great many MIDI links in the DigiTrad pages are now broken, but the embedded players (when they exist for the same entries) play fine. Any clue why that is? The links seem to use "!" near the front, which seems strange to me.

Another way to post MIDIs is with a (free) Dropbox account. Dropbox supports hotlinking and doesn't munge the file extension when creating public links, so clicking on a public Dropbox link to a MIDI file should start a player in some fashion, as at Mudcat. You can also right-click (or whatever brings up your context menu) in order to download the MIDI instead.

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 03:31 AM

You could do the dropbox account, but I think we're better off to keep this stuff at a central location so we can incorporate it into Mudcat when we get the new software and hardware installation done.
So, if you don't mind, please send MIDIs for posting to me.
Thanks.

-Joe Offer-
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 07:26 AM

It would be more help if it was possible to post ABC code so it would appear monospaced and without leading spaces. That simply mean fixing Mudcat's text-input bug that rewrites plain text.

Properly working ABC support makes MIDI unnecessary.

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 12:28 PM

Just put the ABC within <code>...</code> tags and it will do just that. Also encode any angle brackets or ampersands within the ABC, to keep them from being interpreted as HTML bracketting characters. Only problem might be with embedded tab characters--they're not always equivalent to eight-space stops.

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 12:56 PM

Doesn't quite work.   Using your <code> suggestion:

X:3
T:Ookpik Waltz
C:Frankie Rodgers
M:3/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=140
K:G
(3DEF|G3 F GB|A2 G2 ED|E2 G3 A|G2 B2
d2 |e3 d ef|e2 d2 BG|B2 d3 e|d4
Bd |e3 d eg|e2 d2 BA|B2 d2 BA|G2 E2
D2 |C3 B, CE|D2 F2 ED|E2 G3 A|G2 B2||
d2 |e2 B3 A|B4    e2|d2 B3 A|B4
B2 |A3 G AB|A2 G2 ED|E2 G2 A2|G2 B2
d2 |e2 B3 A|B4    fe|d2 B3 G|B4
B2 |A3 G AB|A2 G2 ED|E2 G2 E2|D4|]

Leading space gets eaten, as do some internal multiple spaces (following no pattern I can see), so alignment goes to pot.

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 05:32 PM

Jack, to get multiple space characters, replace every other of them by " " ("non-breaking space"). Not too comfortable, but it works; see the source code of the following:

(3DEF|G3 F  GB|A2 G2 ED|E2 G3  A|G2 B2
  d2 |e3 d  ef|e2 d2 BG|B2 d3  e|d4
  Bd |e3 d  eg|e2 d2 BA|B2 d2 BA|G2 E2
  D2 |C3 B, CE|D2 F2 ED|E2 G3  A|G2 B2||
  d2 |e2 B3  A|B4    e2|d2 B3  A|B4
  B2 |A3 G  AB|A2 G2 ED|E2 G2 A2|G2 B2
  d2 |e2 B3  A|B4    fe|d2 B3  G|B4
  B2 |A3 G  AB|A2 G2 ED|E2 G2 E2|D4|]


Of course, owners of MIDI files need a converter to ABC. Who of our NWC faction uses the converter "nwc2abc" (is that the name?)?

Posting ABC text is basically a good idea if the result is meant to become written music. Fancy arrangements meant for karaoke playback are best uploaded as MIDI files - to an external upload service. Enter "free file uploader" into a search engine.

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 07:17 PM

If you haven't already created the karaoke playback stuff, you may as well post ABC and generate MIDI from that. It's far easier to go in that direction than the other way; ABC created by conversion from MIDI usually needs so much cleanup to be usable that it's quicker to throw the MIDI away and start from scratch.

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 06:45 PM

Fancy arrangements meant for karaoke playback typically contain very many notes that nobody really wants to read. The OP sometimes posts such arrangements as MIDI files. It would not make sense to ask her to post very long ABC texts instead, with the additional drawback that the information about velocity/volume, stereo position, etc. is lost (if there was any ...).

NWC is a notation software (including accidentals etc., not just MIDI), so I wonder whether its users also use nwc2abc, or why not. I am not an NWC user myself, and, as I must admit, not a good ABC typist either, so I sometimes convert suitable MIDI files to ABC for posting here, with reasonable success. Software with direct ABC export would be preferable, of course. Rumour has it that things are on their way, e.g. with MuseScore, but I do not know anything definite.

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 07:41 PM

Jack, look what happens when I use <pre> preformat tags instead of <code>. Is that how you want it?
-Joe-

X:3
  T:Ookpik Waltz
  C:Frankie Rodgers
  M:3/4
  L:1/8
  Q:1/4=140
  K:G
  (3DEF|G3 F  GB|A2 G2 ED|E2 G3  A|G2 B2
    d2 |e3 d  ef|e2 d2 BG|B2 d3  e|d4
    Bd |e3 d  eg|e2 d2 BA|B2 d2 BA|G2 E2
    D2 |C3 B, CE|D2 F2 ED|E2 G3  A|G2 B2||
    d2 |e2 B3  A|B4    e2|d2 B3  A|B4
    B2 |A3  G AB|A2 G2 ED|E2 G2 A2|G2 B2
    d2 |e2 B3  A|B4    fe|d2 B3  G|B4
    B2 |A3  G AB|A2 G2 ED|E2 G2 E2|D4|]

To play or display ABC tunes, try concertina.net

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 09:34 AM

No - what you did there was exactly what I'd like to do, but Mudcat misinterprets the "pre" tag and inserts leading spaces where it shouldn't.

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 02:12 PM

Joe, the reason why your method is not good enough is that the usual ABC software absolutely requires those coloned things (X:, T:, etc., not the actual notes) directly at the beginning of the line. We would like to copy-and-paste from Mudcat into our ABC editors (I use ABCExplorer) - it does not work with those space characters. Is that different with the software you are using?

Mudcat does not actually misinterpret the <pre> tag, but it takes the liberty to add a space after each <br> tag it inserts. This "phenomenon" has been known for a long time.

In other words: whoever wants ABC text with aligned columns, must use <code> and  . I learned that trick from another poster about two years ago, and it did not seem new then.

Subject: RE: are MIDI's postable?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 03:12 PM

I'm in the process of adding an options GUI to my HtmlEsc utility, primarily to help those who have to edit previous postings or who have already added some HTML tags. Perhaps I should add an "ABC" mode which would automatically wrap the clipboard text in CODE tags and convert spaces to non-breaking ones. (Embedded angle brackets and ampersands are already encoded by default, though suppressing this behavior will be one of the new options.)

Like a silly goose, it never occurred to me that Mudcat, rather than the browsers themselves, might be responsible for munging the interpretation of the PRE and CODE tags, but that seems more logical than that browser programmers would mess up the formatting of tags intended primarily for code snippets and the like, considering that coalescing spaces within literal strings and regular expressions radically changes code behavior, while in some languages the indentation affects the flow of control. (Since NBSP is a valid but distinct character, I would expect the replacement to cause code mess-ups in other contexts, but fortunately ABC converters appear to treat the two characters equivalently.)

Any clue from the Mudcat or DT crowd on why most of the DT MIDI links are now broken? The URL my browser reports for the link when hovering is "http://www.mudcat.org/media/XXX.MID" (substitute XXX with an appropriate name), while the error page reports both this file and it's translation of "D:\!webserver\mudcat\htdocs\media\XXX.MID" as not found.