Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeetta

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da

DigiTrad:
GILGARRY MOUNTAIN (There's whiskey in the jar)
WHISKEY, YOU'RE THE DIVIL


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: Musha ringum duram da... (99)
(origins) Origins: Whiskey In The Jar (164)
Firearms query from 'Whiskey in the Jar' (72)
Whiskey in the Jar by the young fellow (2)
Whiskey in the Jar - Irish? Appalachian? (60)
Lyr Req: Whisky in the Jar parody (10)
Whiskey in the Jar (36)
Lyr Req: Whisky in Jar, Jug of Punch (23)
Lyr Req: Scriptures on the wall (2)
Lyr Req: Tequila in the jar (8)
Lyr Req: Bold Lovell (6)
Lord, There's alot of Whiskey in the jar (19)
Why is Whisky In The Jar... (32)
Whiskey in the Jar (12)
Tune Req: Whisky in the Jar (4)
Gilgarry Mountain a/k/a Whiskey in the Jar (14)
Lyr Req: Whiskey in the Jar (2) (closed)


mryan 31 Jan 99 - 07:30 AM
Roger in Baltimore 31 Jan 99 - 07:58 AM
Liam's Brother 31 Jan 99 - 10:43 AM
Ian Kirk (inactive) 31 Jan 99 - 11:44 AM
31 Jan 99 - 11:55 AM
rick fielding 31 Jan 99 - 12:16 PM
Ritchie 01 Feb 99 - 11:04 AM
Bill D 01 Feb 99 - 12:24 PM
Bill D 01 Feb 99 - 12:35 PM
Sean Mac Ruaraidh 01 Feb 99 - 01:02 PM
Barry Finn 01 Feb 99 - 01:39 PM
Sandy Paton 01 Feb 99 - 05:30 PM
Joe Offer 01 Feb 99 - 06:45 PM
Roger in Baltimore 01 Feb 99 - 07:16 PM
01 Feb 99 - 07:20 PM
Jo Taylor 01 Feb 99 - 07:35 PM
01 Feb 99 - 08:14 PM
Mike Billo 01 Feb 99 - 08:31 PM
Sandy Paton 01 Feb 99 - 08:51 PM
alison 01 Feb 99 - 10:16 PM
Joe Offer 01 Feb 99 - 11:14 PM
karen k 01 Feb 99 - 11:23 PM
karen k 01 Feb 99 - 11:26 PM
O'Boyle 01 Feb 99 - 11:34 PM
Lonesome EJ 02 Feb 99 - 12:25 AM
02 Feb 99 - 01:48 AM
02 Feb 99 - 01:52 AM
02 Feb 99 - 01:46 PM
Bill D 02 Feb 99 - 02:34 PM
Jo Taylor 02 Feb 99 - 07:32 PM
Margo 03 Feb 99 - 12:32 PM
Philippa 03 Feb 99 - 02:45 PM
Philippa 05 Feb 99 - 03:32 PM
Melodeon 05 Feb 99 - 05:55 PM
Rosie 06 Feb 99 - 11:14 AM
Philippa 14 Feb 99 - 02:52 PM
Philippa 14 Feb 99 - 02:57 PM
Jack Hickman, Kingston, Ontario 14 Feb 99 - 04:52 PM
Philippa 15 Feb 99 - 03:51 PM
Philippa 16 Feb 99 - 05:46 PM
GUEST,Patrick Sheehan 27 Oct 03 - 02:40 AM
GUEST 27 Oct 03 - 03:46 AM
GUEST,weerover 27 Oct 03 - 08:33 AM
radriano 27 Oct 03 - 11:30 AM
GUEST,guest 27 Oct 03 - 12:08 PM
GUEST,Patrick Sheehan 14 Nov 03 - 07:53 PM
GUEST,Patrick Sheehan 14 Nov 03 - 10:09 PM
GUEST,Patrick Sheehan 14 Nov 03 - 10:23 PM
Peace 15 Nov 03 - 09:24 PM
GUEST,Philippa 16 Nov 03 - 04:19 PM
s&r 17 Nov 03 - 08:19 AM
ard mhacha 18 Nov 03 - 06:23 AM
ard mhacha 18 Nov 03 - 06:29 AM
GUEST,Telvanni 05 Apr 06 - 02:19 PM
GUEST,maire 19 Dec 06 - 10:19 AM
Scrump 20 Dec 06 - 06:59 AM
GUEST,periko 01 Jul 07 - 04:54 PM
GUEST,JTT 01 Jul 07 - 07:25 PM
EuGene 01 Jul 07 - 10:52 PM
GUEST,PMB 02 Jul 07 - 10:46 AM
GUEST,Aneurysm 14 Jul 07 - 12:14 AM
Susanne (skw) 14 Jul 07 - 08:10 AM
Viracocha 28 Jul 07 - 01:21 PM
Jim Lad 29 Jul 07 - 01:25 AM
GUEST,Ktulu789 12 May 08 - 09:06 AM
Mr Happy 12 May 08 - 09:18 AM
Mr Happy 12 May 08 - 09:22 AM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 12 May 08 - 12:13 PM
Wincing Devil 12 May 08 - 03:43 PM
Mr Happy 13 May 08 - 04:19 AM
GUEST,Volgadon 13 May 08 - 11:30 AM
GUEST,Lisa 31 Jan 09 - 08:38 PM
GUEST,Kevin Z. 17 Mar 09 - 04:48 AM
GUEST,AJ 16 Aug 10 - 02:05 AM
MGM·Lion 17 Aug 10 - 12:33 AM
scowie 17 Aug 10 - 02:46 PM
GUEST,Chrissy 18 Dec 10 - 05:59 AM
GUEST,bev. in pgh 14 Jan 11 - 02:52 PM
GUEST 28 Jan 11 - 04:23 PM
GUEST,J. Leach-Clark/guest 28 Jan 11 - 04:30 PM
GUEST,Rumbz 24 Feb 11 - 10:25 AM
GUEST,Mario 04 May 11 - 10:27 AM
GUEST,BrightonBo 15 Nov 11 - 05:45 AM
moecurlythanu 15 Nov 11 - 04:14 PM
GUEST 07 Jun 12 - 12:11 AM
GUEST,P.J.Reilly 07 Jun 12 - 04:26 AM
GUEST,Vic Newfie 03 Jun 13 - 05:40 PM
Seamus Kennedy 03 Jun 13 - 10:03 PM
eftifino 04 Jun 13 - 01:37 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:










Subject: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: mryan
Date: 31 Jan 99 - 07:30 AM

Does anyone know what the lyrics "musha ring dumma do dumma da" mean? They are from the song Whiskey in the Jar.

If you have any idea of a translation, I would appreciate it. Thanks.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 31 Jan 99 - 07:58 AM

Mryan,

Irish music is filled with "nonsense" phrases like the one above. They tend to be part of choruses. I don't think they have any meaning or purpose except to fill up melodic space.

Roger in Baltimore


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 31 Jan 99 - 10:43 AM

Roger is entirely correct. The meaning is... no meaning.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Ian Kirk (inactive)
Date: 31 Jan 99 - 11:44 AM

A more up to date translation may be - Wop Bop a Loo Bop a Lop Bam Boom - Little Richard borrowed it and used it in Tutti Frutti a Rock and Roll song my grandad told me about

Ian


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From:
Date: 31 Jan 99 - 11:55 AM

NOBODY in the world is SO young that he HEARD about Little Richard from his GRANDAD for cripes sake. Now I know there IS a parallel universe out there mocking our own. Ian, you make me feel so old!--John


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: rick fielding
Date: 31 Jan 99 - 12:16 PM

"musha, musha...." before we blame the Irish (or even grandparents who were Little Richard fans) can anyone remember: "iss biddly oten doten bobo". I can swear I heard my mother (singing?) that when I was an impressionable youth. And who of course could forget: "ooh eeh, ooh, ahh, ahh, ting tang wallawalla bing bang". Thank God I discovered Pete Seeger before it was too late!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Ritchie
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 11:04 AM

ish shimpul reely jush lishun too "mairzy dotes an does eet dotes an lickle ams eet ivy a kidll eet ivy too woodnt yoo?" an it will all becum so much cleera.

lorra luv

Big Richard


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 12:24 PM

a few lines on deeper meaning...

"now 'salagadoola' means 'mooshakaboolaroo', but the thinga-a-ma-bob that does the job, is 'Bibbity-bobbity-boo'"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 12:35 PM

and, for a complete explanation, click here

Swinburn's tongue-in-cheek response to Tennyson's The Higher Pantheism


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Sean Mac Ruaraidh
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 01:02 PM

Well, you may say it is nonsense but I have a theory that these garbled lines once meant something and that the meaning was lost in translation from another language or dialect. These gibberish fillers may well have at one point been phonetically translatable but now there is no chance as too many years have passed.

Could 'musha ring umma do umma do' at one time been a bit of Gaelic Irish or did the writer simply run out of words, or is it just something that has the right sound about it.

Its lines like this that might give folk music a bad name in some social groupings - I heard an uneducated English chap refer to it as Hey Nonny Noo music - sounds more like a reference to Much Ado About Nothing than folk music 'Into Hey nonny, nonny..' My dad calls some types of folk music 'diddle-dee-dee' but thats a direct reference to the sound of some of the bands and is onomatapaeic.

Anyway unless someone comes with the goods we can specualte forever. I think too you'll find that 'musha ...' etc. is not even in all versions of that song.

Sean


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 01:39 PM

Sean, a woman I used to sing with 15 years or so ago had the same theory you mentioned, but I haven't seen or heard from her since. She went to Scotland got a new name, a new husband, new band & now sings stuff that even she doesn't understand. Look above do you see the words to "mare's eat oats and doe's eat oats and little lambs eat ivy" that in itself makes for a convincing theory, although I think that Richie knew that when he posted it but many others have said that they haven't a clue as to what those words meant. Barry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 05:30 PM

C'mon guys! We know they're all based on ancient Pictish fertility chants such as "Hi-diddle-i-diddle-i-fie, diddle-i-diddle-i-day." Part of the great Jungian collective-unconscious we happily share. Pre-viagara stuff, and no side-effects.

Sandy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 06:45 PM

Rick Fielding - Isn't it your beloved Pete Seeger who inflicted "Abiyoyo" upon an unsuspecting world? I think I have that song on five different CD's. Listening to it once is quite enough. I like Pete Seeger very much, but not that song.
-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 07:16 PM

Thanks, Joe, you echo my thoughts. I was thinking old Pete also sang somethin' called Wimoweh. I suspect that isn't a word in any language, either.

Roger in Baltimore


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From:
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 07:20 PM

Damn it joe, you had to remind me about that! Which in turn reminded me that Pete sang: Risselty rosselty, hey bombosity nickety nackety retricule quality willoby walloby now, now, now. He claimed it was from Aunt Emma Dusenbury, but I bet it was some communist plot.

My all time favourite nonsence (or politically cyphered) chorus is that sung by Peter Stampfel on "Mr. Spaceman". It can be found on the Holy Modal Rounders first album. It puts your Pictish fertility choruses to shame, Sandy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 07:35 PM

Rick - several messages back, could it be that you refer to 'BEEP skiddely ogen dogen pogo ske doogen daten'? Other parts like 'kama la kama la kama la vista' and 'eeny meeny macareny ooh ah ooha la meeny'?? If so it's a 'mind-worm' that's been bothering me for a couple of years...can anyone fill in the rest of it? or are those all the bits? It's a question & response sort of song. Do you all get mind-worms?
Jo, who's just caught this one again - thanks Rick... :-/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From:
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 08:14 PM

Anyone with a modicum of linguistic ability understands it to mean "SHITE". MG Sport


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Mike Billo
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 08:31 PM

I'll lay claim to the "most pretentious twit" award ( a dubious honor that I'm, unfortunately, very familiar with) by contributing that the technical name for the singing of syllables that are not actually a part of a real language is called turtleage.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 08:51 PM

Emma Dusenberry was discovered by some of those good political/social activists at the Commonwealth School in Mena, Arkansas, a fact that undoubtedly thickens the "plot." Lee Hayes was one of 'em, too, so there you are, Rick! Probably a direct conspiratorial link to Abiyoyo and Risselty-Rosselty, designed to weaken our patriotic resolve by filling our heads with nonsense.

Jo: We've collected about a dozen "Mama-lama-kooma-lama, mama-la vistas" in schools around the country, and no two were ever quite the same. Similar, yes, but not identical. Our granddaughter learned a version here in rural Connecticut. Bessie Jones had a dandy one from the Georgia Sea Islands. Trouble is, they've all been done too fast for me to be able to transcribe the words!

Sandy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: alison
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 10:16 PM

Hi Jo and Rick,

Used to sing it as a brownie and guide. the rhythm is done by slapping your thighs then clapping your hands.

FLEA

(All lines are done by the leader then echoed)

Flea
Flea fly
Flea fly flo
vista

Cumala, cumala, cumala vista
Oh no no no no da vista
Eeney meaney decimeaney ooh wala wala meaney ex a meaney sal a meaney ooh wala wa
Beat biddley oten doten bobo da beeten doten Shhhhht.

Then you do it FAST!!!

Slainte

alison


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 11:14 PM

Hey, Alison, that's exactly the way I learned it from my obnoxious kid sister. She'd do it over and over and over again. It was disgusting. It still is....
-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: karen k
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 11:23 PM

My version is the same as Alison's until the first line that ends with vista (but I learned vistey not vista).

FLEA

Each line is echoed back to the leader.

Flea (Flea) Flea fly (Flea fly) Flea fly flo (Flea fly flo) Vistey (Vistey)

Cumala, cumala, cumala vistey

Oh no no no not the vistey

Vistey ( and then it really changes!)

Eeney meney dis a leenee, ooh ahh ahh meleenee Otchicotchee oochirachee, ooh ahh ooh. Ish bibili oaten doten, why not in doten toten, bo bo ski doten toten hey don areema!

This was always a camp song that was lots of fun because you got faster each time until everyone just collapsed in laughter. I've heard other versions but this is the only one I've ever been able to learn.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: karen k
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 11:26 PM

Oops, Sorry Joe. I forgot all about the
's

karen


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: O'Boyle
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 11:34 PM

I knew some one who asked a band to play the "black balls on the patio" song which he thought were the words to the chorus of Whiskey in the Jar.

Rick


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 Feb 99 - 12:25 AM

I was driving with a friend whi is Irish, and we were listening to "Whiskey in the Jar". When hit got to the "musha ring dumma do" part, my friend says "Ah! here's the dirty part"."What ya mean, the dirty part?" I said.He told me that a lot of old Irish tunes were originally performed in pubs frequented by men only, and that the refrains were almost always "off-color", as they say.These were cleaned up for the functions where women,or folk music chroniclers, were in attendance.Now it's entirely possible my good friend was pulling my leg and it wouldn't be the first time. Maybe one of the Irish Mudcatters can confirm or refute this dread insult against celtic music. LEJ


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From:
Date: 02 Feb 99 - 01:48 AM

many years ago I heard Bram Morrison (before he became a trillionaire with Sharon Lois and Bram) singing "A Kangeroo sat on an oak...with the chorus Ki moneero kitty kum ki mo ki mo neero ki mo...he said it was a Newfoundland variant of Carrion Crow, and my friend who was with me wondered if the chorus was gaelic. I'm right now trying to decypher the hidden meaning that has escaped me all these years. In the meantime can anybody tell me what "Diddy wa Diddy" means?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From:
Date: 02 Feb 99 - 01:52 AM

Not that my postings are Shakespeare-like in their brilliance but can anybody tell me why they're coming out anonymously? Am I doing something wrong?

Rick F


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From:
Date: 02 Feb 99 - 01:46 PM

I dinnae hae th' Irish, anely a wee bit o' Scots Gaelic, but I'm wi' Sean an' th' ithers whae think "Musha ring" comes frae wairds our Modern English/American ears hear as "nonsense."

Allow me tae present ye wi' a relatit example: growin' up subjectit tae Peter, Paul, an' Mary's rendition o' sangs, I thocht for years that th' followin' wairds were "jist nonsense syllables:"

"Shool, shool, shool-a-roon, / shool-a-rack-shack / shool-a-bob a-coon..."

These wairds were pairt o' th' chorus tae th' auld sang aboot th' lass lamentin' that, as usual, "Johnny's gane for a soldier..." Weel, I haed ma suspicions that I wisnae gettin' th' hale story wi' that odd "nonsense" chorus, an' sure eno'!!! I went tae a sang wairkshop at an Irish festival in Alaska, an' there wis a fellow teachin' us th' proper Irish wairds.

"Shool-a-run" actually comes frae th' Irish Gaelic (forgie me for wrichtin' Scots Gaelic an' omittin' accents, I dinnae hae th' Irish wairds printit oot) wairds "Siubhal"--meanin' travel-- an' "Run" meanin' someane verra dear. So th' narrator's nae babblin' like an' eejit, she's lamentin' th' fact that her love maun gae travellin' aff, an' possibly sayin' sumpit tae th' effect o' "sure, gae aff an' leave me, I'll jist sit here on ma hill wi'oot ma spinnin' wheel an' SUFFER..."

I'm thinkin' tis time tae lay this ane afore oor resident Mudcat Irish scholars. Onyane oot there wi' a facility for Irish an' eno' vocabulary/interpretion skills tae render "Musha-ring..." in th' auld Mither Tongue? Barrin' that, onyane oot there wi' eno' Irish tae tell me aff, an' laugh in ma face because ye ken it really IS nonsense, sairvin' tae cover up sumpit waurse?!?

maist humbly submitted,

--Cuilionn


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 99 - 02:34 PM

wasn't it Seamus Ennis who had a funny joke/monologue about a father and his kids, where he doesn't feel good, and they bring him a toddy, and inquire of it's efficacity ..."did da Rum do, Da-Dee?"....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 02 Feb 99 - 07:32 PM

Thanks Alison & Karen! At least my mind worm will get it in the right order now......Joe (and others) - it must be much nore common in the US - I'd never ever heard it before until a couple of years ago sitting round a camp fire.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Margo
Date: 03 Feb 99 - 12:32 PM

Hey alison!

I'm amazed at your "flea fly flo" rhyme. I learned the same one at camp in the sierras. Your version is verbatim to the one I know. THAT'S WIERD! You'd expect the differences.....

Margarita


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Philippa
Date: 03 Feb 99 - 02:45 PM

Shoo-bop-a-loo-bop. Yes, I heard the Pictish theory before; the lost tongue surviving only in choral remnants. And there certainly ARE songs in which the original language of the song survives in a corrupted form in the chorus. It happens quite a bit with the songs of immigrants in N America. Cuilionn mentions a variant of "si£l a r£in" (in the database as Shule Aroon, Buttermilk Hill, Shule Agra/Johnny has gone for a soldier; and also in an earlier thread in Irish); another example from Irish would be versions of an Drim¡onn D¡lis collected in Canada.
But I would like to offer another theory about the origin of meaningless syllables. In many cases they have no particular function except to sound funny and be fun to sing together. But the custom may have risen out of vocables that were used as mnemonics to help memorise tunes.
Some of you will know about songs that pipers used to learn tunes. As I understand it, the songs were similar to singing a melody with the words "doh, re, mi, fa," etc. fitting exactly which note was played. But the system was more complicated than that because there were also syllables to represent the time the note was held and some of the fingered ornamentation. Thus a piper could practise without an instrument, moving their fingers as the sound symbols of the song indicated.
Scottish waulking songs have characteristic choral lines such as "o hi h-oireann o". Everyone waulking the tweed would sing these choruses together as they worked, while individuals would sing the verses. The verses can be adapted and improvised, but any particular melody has very specific vocables and they are supposed to be strictly adhered to. Given a line of the chorus, those in the know will be able to give you the entire tune. John Campbell and Frances Collinson did some analysis of how particular sounds(for instance the length of vowels)give the rhythm of the tune. I don't know what further study has been done on the topic.
Has anyone got a theory about why Scots Gaels "hi ho", Irish singers "diddle da dee", Jazz goes "beebop", etc - the preponderence of a particular initial syllable in the lilting and vocatives of different cultures or musical styles?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Philippa
Date: 05 Feb 99 - 03:32 PM

"whack-fol-the diddle" means "refresh" in Phlipantish.

as in "whack-fol-the didle-i-doh" which means "I'm not looking to have the last word on this topic".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Melodeon
Date: 05 Feb 99 - 05:55 PM

Who cares what it means!!! Where else can you stand up and say/sing something like 'musha ring dumma do dumma da' or 'ri fal latterly O' or even 'To me rite fal lal, to me ral tal lal, whack fol the dear oh day', and people applaud you? The Houses of Parliament? - Capitol Hill?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Rosie
Date: 06 Feb 99 - 11:14 AM

I've also been thinking that this type of "phrasology" is called "lilting"(shades of me Irish granny *sniff*). The term appears in Philippa's Feb 3 posting.

It's a good warm-up excercise for Irish brogue-ing.

Fiddle-de-di-dilly-deedle-de-day!

Rosie


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: cantaireachd
From: Philippa
Date: 14 Feb 99 - 02:52 PM

I wrote on 3 Feb about the possible relationship of nonsense words to the system of cantaireachd for memorising pipe tunes. I've just been listening to a piping programme on the radio and they played some excerpts of and about cantaireachd from a new CD-Rom "The Great Highland Bagpipe". The reviewers rated it highly, albeit with a couple of quibbles about authenticity, such as an Irish bellows-blown uilleann pipe being played to illustrate the sound of the defunct pastoral pipe. Scotdisc has a webpage advertising this CD-Rom


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Philippa
Date: 14 Feb 99 - 02:57 PM

I tested the link and it didn't work. I think I had an extra full-stop at the end of the address. So here we go again (Joe is sorry he ever told me about HTML): Scotdisc at http://www.scotdisc.co.uk/shop.htm


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Jack Hickman, Kingston, Ontario
Date: 14 Feb 99 - 04:52 PM

Greetings, friends.

Just to add my two cents worth to the mix. Without repeating the doggerel in the thread title, I would suggest it is a variant on the ancient art of "lilting" as practiced in Irish ceilidh when the participants were too poor to possess musical instruments. In order that the dancers could have music, one or more of the participants would "lilt" the melody. It's also referred to as "mouth music" and "puert a buill" (spelling questionable.)

In other words it's just a sound to go with the song.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Philippa
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 03:51 PM

Jack,
I would call the 'diddly di dee' type of singing 'lilting', but the marvellous thing about 'puirt-a- beul' (mouth music) is that the words DO make a kind of sense, as well as catching the inflections of the music wonderfully.

Cha tig an latha th‚id mi dhachaidh
Gus an tig na caoraich
Cha tig an latha th‚id mi dhachaidh
Gus an tig na caoraich

Gus an tig a' chaora dhubh,

Gus an tig a' chaora,
Gus an tig a' chaora dhubh
'S a h-adhairc as a h-aonais

basically it "means I won't come home till the sheep come". It's true the words are of little consequence, but they are not meaningless. We have similar songs in English; for instance to the reel "Soldier's Joy":
I am my mother's darling pet
I am my mother's darling pet
I am my mother's darling pet
I won't get married for a long while yet

I don't think any of the ones I know in English match the sound qualities of the best examples of the Gaelic puirt. Though I think 'Old Dan Tucker' might fit in this category and it's quite catchy.
By the way, as a Gaelic learner, I have sometimes been quite excited to realise what tune a lyric goes to simply by reading the words out loud and catching the rhythm.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: puirt-a-beul
From: Philippa
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 05:46 PM

There are some more examples of puirt, with translations, (one goes to the tune of "The High Road to Linton") at George Seto's site and C. Cockburn offers an article about puirt-a-beul
I haven't (yet)tried a mudcat foram search to try to find any previous discussion of the topic


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Patrick Sheehan
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 02:40 AM

Anybody know why the song is called "Whiskey in the Jar"? More specifically, why do they say, "There's whiskey in the jar" in the chorus when not one of the versions of the song has anything to do with Whiskey or Jars?
   The last stanza in a lot of the versions has the bit about "the juice of the barley" but all of the songs are about this outlaw guy getting betrayed by some girl, so why is the chorus a bunch of nonsense and a random bit about booze?


Some of my thoughts:
   I keep looking but everywhere I look tells me the same thing: the words in the chorus are just nonsense. But I find that hard to believe. It sounds very much like the little Irish I know:

"Musha ring um a do um a da" is very very similar sounding to these Irish words:
Musha => M'uishe (my whiskey)
ring um a => rinne me/ (rinne = past tense of "de/an" which is "do, make, perform, carry out, commit, turn out, reach, establish"; me/ = "I, me")
do => don (from "do" + "an" = "to the, for the")
um a da => amada/n (fool)

which translates to "I made my whiskey for the fool." Which, as a translation, has the nice qualities that it follows correct Irish grammar and also follows stress rules for both sentences and individual words. It also has to do with whiskey, which is nice.

my whiskey made a fool of me would translate to, I think:
Rinne se/ m'uishe me/ amada/n. Which doesn't work as a translation because the subject has to follow the verb.

"Whack for the daddy-o" is sometimes said to be a mistranscription of "work of the devil-o" which makes some sense as far as my first translation goes in an "alcohol is the devil's brew" sort of sense. It is also in keeping with the story line revolving around a highwayman.

A possible anternative Irish translation is as follows:
uacht failte ta/ diobh,
which sounds like "whack fol cha ta jiov" which is pretty close. Unfortunately, I don't think it makes any sense since it translates to "It is a testament of welcome for them".

My last thought is that maybe it has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with whiskey at all. Maybe the line "there's whiskey in the jar" is actually the mistranscribed line. Maybe the chorus never had anything to do with whiskey.

The Irish word for whiskey, "uisce" (pronounced "ish-keh"), is also the Irish word for water. And many of the versions of the song have his girl filling up his cartridges with water as a main plot point. "Whiskey in the jar" might have been a mishearing of some Gaelic like "uisce ina dearadh" punning on dearadh, drawing his pistols and jenny or molly etc drawing water into his charges, or something.

My Irish is definitely not good enough to do the translation but I do think there's something there.

-----
Those are some ideas. Does anybody else have any helpful suggestions? (Aside from the suggestion that it is just nonsense...)
Does anyone know where this chorus originates? (There is a very similar sounding chorus in "Whiskey, you're the divil" which the Clancys cover, I think, and that song has a bit more to do with whiskey but still not much as it's mainly a war song.)
Any leads on what's goin' on here?

- Very confused,
   Patrick Sheehan

sheehan@brown.edu


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 03:46 AM

Re why "there's whiskey in the jar":
I think it simply is the part of the story where the narrator expresses his desire to kiss the jar/glass/bottle before continuing; compare "but I'll sing no more now 'till I get a drink" (in Carrickfergus) ;-)

AKS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 08:33 AM

Another term for nonsense words/syllables in songs is "rumbelows"

wr


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: radriano
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 11:30 AM

In the song "Siul a Run"(sp?) you can see some justification for the theory that nonsense words were not always nonsense. In later American versions of the song nonsense words replace the Irish words as a chorus.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 12:08 PM

When we were kids in Tottenham (you can guess how long ago)we used to sing "We won the cup /we won the cup ee i addio we won the cup" .The iaddio bit i thought was nonsense until I went to Ireland about ten years ago and heard my friend's young daughter sing to the same tune   " ta mamas isteach ta mamas isteach duirt daddio ta mamas isteach " In the Irish (which I'm sure I haven't reproduced properly here) it sounds very similar.The words mean something like Mummy's at home tell daddy that mummy's at home.
The Clancy Bros used to sing a song THe Juice of the Barley with a chorus that I always assumed was nonsense "Bunya na bo is na Gowny and the Juice of the Barley for me" which isn't nonsense atall.It translates as The milk of cows is for calves and the juice of the barley's for me.
Brendan Behan wrote that the words of Lillibulero which was sang by the apprentice boys at the siege of Derry and which wqs widely perceived as being nonsense meant The Lilly (the emblem of the boys who were all Gaelic speakers) won the day.
There are a load of other examples but I can't think of any at the moment


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Patrick Sheehan
Date: 14 Nov 03 - 07:53 PM

Along a similar line, does anyone know what the earliest song is that this chorus appears in? It appears in this one and in "Whiskey, you're the Divil" (which is on this site). Does anyone know how far back it goes, with or with out the rest of the song?

- Patrick Sheehan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Patrick Sheehan
Date: 14 Nov 03 - 10:09 PM

As far as translations of the rumbelows goes, I have another one:

m'uisce rinneadh me/ di/obh amada/n (sounds a lot like: musha ringa ma doo um a da, when said quickly) means literally

my whiskey made me, for them, a fool. (or, more conversationally, my whiskey made me stupid and then they got me in my drunken state)

There is a song called "Sporting Hero - or, Whiskey in the Bar" from an early 1850s broadside on Bodleian that is very very similar to Whiskey in the Jar and has the additional verses

1. I am a sporting hero, I never yet was daunted
In treating pretty girls in places where I haunted
In gin and rum and brandy I would spend all my store
I when that is done I would boldly rob for more

4. I being wet and weary and for to take a slumber
I laid my self down all in my Molly's chamber
She unloaded my pistols and loaded them with water
I was taken like a lamb going to the slaughter

8. Some take great delight in their fishing and their fowling
and others take delight in their carriage rolling
but I take great delight in being brisk and jolly
Filling up strong liquors for you deceitful Molly.

Taken in the context of these additional verses, it now makes some sense to me why the song is even CALLED whiskey in the jar. It seems to be based on a story where this drunk highwayman robs this Captain but is so sloshed that when he gets back to his girlfriend's place, she's finally had enough of him coming home trashed and so she decides to hand him over to the authorities. He passes out in her room ("I being wet and weary" possibly a reference to being drunk) and she disarms him so that he wont kill anyone when the police come for him in the morning. Then he escapes and in the end, in this version at least, is still in love with Molly, but seems to wish that he wasn't.

I think my attempt at an Irish-English translation of this fits in nicely with the broader story of the "Sporting Hero" and iknowitall's comment about "whacking the bar to get the bartender's attention" and give an understandable, consistent possible reading of the chorus which is commonly just brushed aside as nonsense. The story of the chorus is that the highway man is in a pub telling this story to the other people in the bar, saying "what I fool I was when drunk, now get me another drink." This is both a more intersting chorus in this light, it is lightly ironic and humorous too.

What do you all think?

- Patrick Sheehan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Patrick Sheehan
Date: 14 Nov 03 - 10:23 PM

hehehe, I really should collect all my thoughts before I post. I keep getting ideas and finding stuff.

Anyway, the last post was slightly unclear in it's last paragraph: Sporting Hero is at the beginning talking to some audience and then ends with him talking directly to Molly (here's the link for those interested: http://bodley24.bodley.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/acwwweng/ballads/image.pl?ref=Harding+B+11(980)&id=01871.gif&seq=1&size=1 ). My comment on possible chorus interpretation is in regards to the more popular modern versions now where he is talking to an audience the whole time. Sorry if that was unclear.

- Patrick Sheehan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 03 - 09:24 PM

I knew a fellow named Les in the sixties (1960s) who played a seven-string guitar (he doubled up the treble e string--separate tuning heads). He sang the chorus

Mush a ringum a durum a dah, hah!
Wack fol the daddyo,
Wack fol the daddyo,
There's whiskey in the jar.

That was the first I'd ever heard of the song. Never knew what it meant. Great song, though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 16 Nov 03 - 04:19 PM

Maise = well, indeed seems a lot more likely than "m'uisce"! (I'd also query the syntax of Patrick's proposal, but there are such things as poetic license and garbled transliterations)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: s&r
Date: 17 Nov 03 - 08:19 AM

I always feel that "I'm a rover seldom sober I'm a rover of High Degree" would make more sense as "I'm a rover seldom sober I'm a rover I'd agree" with just an air of contrite acceptance...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: ard mhacha
Date: 18 Nov 03 - 06:23 AM

A very informative thread, with some well thought out theories, but away up the thread I came across. onomatapaeic, now can anyone tell me what race this horse is running in. Ard Mhacha.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: ard mhacha
Date: 18 Nov 03 - 06:29 AM

Pardon my ignorance, I referred to Google and discovered-Onomatapaeic- is a dictionary of Slang. It`s in the 2-30 at Catterick. Ard Mhacha.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Telvanni
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 02:19 PM

I've just been to an Irish pub today, and asked the landlord, what it meant ('Wack fol the daddy-o'), well he laughed and told me that I'll have to wait, til' I get older... since I'm only 17, he must've meant it was too "naughty" to tell me! ;)
So, know you know it IS worth finding out what it means! Or maybe he's just good a joking?! haha


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,maire
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:19 AM

well everyone - doesnt patricks thoughts make most sence?

but agai tell me what whiskey and jars have to do with the rest of the song?

just thinking this is one very interesting thread.. and if anyone has ideas - i'd also be most interested in knowing the words to one of my favorite songs

slainte


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Scrump
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 06:59 AM

That 'flea' song above is similar to the Name Game by Shirley Ellis - I guess the latter was derived from it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,periko
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 04:54 PM

i've been wondering what that might mean eversince i heard the thin lizzy version in '73. (had not heard any other versions then) it has been a conversation piece for many years, because ev'rytime that song popped up in my head (which was at least three times a week for about 25 years) i asked whoever was around if they knew what it meant. i think that, just because mr lynott sings it as if it were quite a message, i couldn't stand the fact that i didn't know what he was singing, and nobody else seemed to know either.
a collegue of mine put on the lizzy vesion the other day, and again i started asking all my collegues and customers (mind you: musicbizz that is) and still not a clue. so finally i decided to check google which brought me here. i couldn't believe my eyes! this thing that had become sort of a running gag/obsession in my life, of which i assumed i would be the only freak in the world even bothering, this tiny little big triviality was keeping people busy always & everywhere! bless you all!
but still: i dunno! i like "m'uishe rinne me don amadan" best, but maybe you 'd like to know what i made of it, being a 13-year old dutch kid, after two years of english lessons...
my first interpretation was: "but i ain't gonna do some like that" (which has already quite a lot of possible meanings fitting in the context) but later i thought i heard: "but i ain't gonna do some mother" (maybe even better fitting in the context, and what about mr lynott's personal life being dragged into the chorus?)
"whack! fall the daddy-o" always seemed obvious to me, because he escapes jail after smacking up his warden (if i remember correctly)
finally; "there's whiskey in the jar" was obvious as well, because we have a proverb in holland which says "all is in jugs and jars"; meaning everything is fixed properly.
(and i haven't told you my interpretation as a 10-year old of "crazy horses" yet!) but....
actually i am really glad that there is no official answer to my question, because i'd really miss my obsession.

god by you all (or was it "good be you"?)

periko

www.periko61.nl


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 07:25 PM

The 'musha' part means 'mar is ea', pronounced 'mar sha' and meaning "if it be so". I think the ring dum-a-doo-rum-da is port-a-béal - mouth-music, or nonsense syllables sung for fun. Whiskey in the jar - well, pass it round, boys (and girls).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: EuGene
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 10:52 PM

Was it Roger Miller who sang "Do Whacka Do Whacka Do Whacka do"? Eu


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:46 AM

Musha is a village in Egypt. Ringum is a $9.99 rug from IKEA. Durum is the kind of wheat used to make pasta. Da is yes in Russian.

So "Musha ringum durum da" means "Yes, I'll have the cheap Egyptian pasta rug."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Aneurysm
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 12:14 AM

HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA

GUEST PMB YOU CRACK ME UP!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 08:10 AM

For me, he best modern use of a line of mouth music occurs in Christy Moore's 'Knock Song' which ends with

didnatodonatededough, me boys, did nato donate de dough

Lovely!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - flee fly flo
From: Viracocha
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 01:21 PM

Although this is a bit off-topic, now, as we're off the 'flee fly flo' topic, and more onto 'whisky in a jar' (which, being Scottish, I have to spell without the e in whisky ;P ). I've checked, but no one's replied with this yet, which really surprised me. There's a far more recent song released by a band called fe-m@ail, and the title is actually 'Flee Fly Flo.' Courtesy of lyricsactions.com, the lyrics go:

FLEE FLY FLO

Flee!
(Flee!)
Flee Fly!
(FLee Fly!)
Flee Fly Flo!
(FLee Fly Flo!)
Fista!
(Fista!)
Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista
(Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista)
Oh nononono, (not) a vista
(Oh nononono, (not) ca vista)
Ennyminey desaminy punana warraminy
(Eeny meeney deci meeny oo na na walla meeny)
Yip belly wapum bapum bobo wa hipum

New Style New Style we got the new style,
Freestyle Meanwhile sister got it by a mile,
Lifestyle, girls smile, we can do it all the while.
Telephone dialing, rub-a-dub styling.

On a really cool tip, You can be a part of this trip
All you gotta do is this, I said, All you gotta do is this.

(Ooooooooooooh!) Read my lips!

Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista
(Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista)
Oh nononono, (not) a vista
(Oh nononono, (not) ca vista)
Ennyminey desaminy punana warraminy
(Eeny meeney deci meeny oo na na walla meeny)
Yip belly wapum bapum bobo wa hipum

Watch me do it, you can do it this way
North and South and East and Westway
Monday to Sunday, gotta be a funday
We don't care what anyone's gonna say

On a really cool tip, You can be a part of this trip
All you gotta do is this, I said, All you gotta do is this.
All you gotta do is this, I said, All you gotta do is this.

Flee!
(Flee!)
Flee Fly!
(FLee Fly!)
Flee Fly Flo!
(FLee Fly Flo!)
Fista!
(Fista!)
Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista
(Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista)
Oh nononono, (not) a vista
(Oh nononono, (not) ca vista)
Ennyminey desaminy punana warraminy
(Eeny meeney deci meeny oo na na walla meeny)
Yip belly wapum bapum bobo wa hipum

Oooooooooooooooooooh! Re-fry this!


However, my mum learnt this (below) at camp in the early seventies (the spaces are as it is written in her self-written 'songbook'):

FIE

Fee (fee)
Fee fie (fee fie)
Fee fie fo (fie fie fo)
Vista (vista)
No, no no no de vista (no, no no no de vista)
Coomawala coomawala               coomawala (x2)
Beet-dilly-oten-doten-bo-bo-ska-dooben-daken (x2)


However, that's a completely different tune to Flee Fly Flo! And my sister (only 16) remembers this bit of a playground clapping rhyme, with the same tune (she thinks) as fe-m@il's song:

Eenie-meenie
Esse-meanie    [ess-e like es-ugh]
You are the one for me
Egregation, segregation
I love you.


Incidently, is 'fee fie fo' anything like 'fee fie fum'?

-Viracocha


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Jim Lad
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 01:25 AM

"which, being Scottish, I have to spell without the e in whisky "
Where YOU are from is not important to the spelling of the word. It's where the Whisky is from that dictates the spelling. (Some thing a little distillery in Inverness County, Cape Breton, should make note of. Such matters should not be taken lightly.
They're on my list.
*Hic*
Jim
Big Mick: You have successfully completed your probationary period and are officially off the list.
However, as a condition of your parole, I will be referring to you only as "Mick" for a period of no less than 30 (thirty) days.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Ktulu789
Date: 12 May 08 - 09:06 AM

I think is some kind of childish gibberish. The next line goes "Whack for my daddy-o". "Musha..." has no meaning but seems more childish when the next line comes with the word "Daddy", makes a bit of sense to me. But it has no meaning anyway.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 May 08 - 09:18 AM

On the phone in Japan, they say 'Mushy, mushy' when they answet it


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 May 08 - 09:22 AM

Translated to Japanese, then back to English gives:


The father of ma which thing cannot be earlier description in regard to ma which the gruel cannot be ring thing earlier description is done


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 12 May 08 - 12:13 PM

"Hi Diddle Diddle," of course, once referred to personal relations accomplished in trees, then was used by "Mother Goose" (whose very name should elicit shudders from caring parents)in the well-known nursery rhyme. There's just no telling where these nonsense phrases can lead...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 12 May 08 - 03:43 PM

I always thought the translation was either "Fa la la la la" or "Chip Chow Cherry Chow folyy rolly diddle dow"


};-(


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 May 08 - 04:19 AM

<>i'Chip Chow Cherry Chow...' sounds a bit Chinese!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 13 May 08 - 11:30 AM

Laying the obnoxious dialect aside, do the words follow proper grammar, or is it just infitives?
I go house, anyone?
" "Shool-a-run" actually comes frae th' Irish Gaelic (forgie me for wrichtin' Scots Gaelic an' omittin' accents, I dinnae hae th' Irish wairds printit oot) wairds "Siubhal"--meanin' travel-- an' "Run" meanin' someane verra dear. So th' narrator's nae babblin' like an' eejit, she's lamentin' th' fact that her love maun gae travellin' aff, an' possibly sayin' sumpit tae th' effect o' "sure, gae aff an' leave me, I'll jist sit here on ma hill wi'oot ma spinnin' wheel an' SUFFER..." "


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Lisa
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 08:38 PM

Here's my version of this little ditty when I was back at camp about 40 years ago:

Flea (this word as well as each line is repeated)
Flea fly
Flea fly flow
Vista

Coomalata Coomalata Coomalata Vista
Oh, no no no no no vista

Eenie meenie deci meenie
Oo watch a walla meanie
Exa meanie solla meanie
Oo watch a wha

Big billy oten doten
Bo bo ba deeten dotten
Shhhhhhhhh (and you'd put your hands together and make a fish motion)

40 years later, I still say it every once in a while. It brings a smile to my face.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Kevin Z.
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 04:48 AM

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: rick fielding
Date: 31 Jan 99 - 12:16 PM

can anyone remember: "iss biddly oten doten bobo". I can swear I heard my mother (singing?) that when I was an impressionable youth.


    Felix Unger (Tony Randall) sings something like this on an episode of the 1970s series The Odd Couple:

   "Skiddle-ey biddle-ley oten boten good bye Sue!"

    or something to that effect.


    It's likely some old scat singing phrase.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,AJ
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 02:05 AM

Well accordin to the net it means if it be so music from the mouth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 12:33 AM

Re all the speculations thruout this thread [some convincing, others perhaps less so] that the words in the thread-title are a garbled version of meaningful Gaelic phrases: it might not be out of place to remind here of the send-up of such interpretations in the well-known students' song which travesties Scottish balladry, Phearson swore a feud Upon the Clan McTavish", where the chorus goes

Cammer-oo cammer-i cammer-o
Cammer-oo cammer-i cammer-oris
Cammer-oo cammer-i cammer-o ~~
And that's the Gaelic chorus!

~Michael~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: scowie
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 02:46 PM

I agree with an earlier post from Sean Mac Ruaraiah, stating these choruses formerly had meaning, even if they have lost them of late.
I would point anyone interested in the direction of "The Druid Source Book" ISBN 1 86019 8422 and particular to the chapter by Charles Mackay,
on "Druidical Chants Preserved In The Popular Songs Of England, Scotland,Ireland and France.
It is eye-opening! I did not fully believe it all, untill I had it examined by an old Gaelic fluent friend Dicky Lett, of the sainted memory! who to my amazement confirmed all the chapter contains.
I sugest any doubters do the same, and examine this text.
Sorry I am technically incapable of helping you further.
Good Luck, Scowie.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Chrissy
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 05:59 AM

One reading most of these posts I think the origins of 'musha ring dumma do damma da' are lost in 'antiquity'. BUT in reply to Roger in Baltimore waaay back in '99 about the song 'Wimoweh' it is actually a South African song written in 1939 by Solomon Linda titled 'Mbube Wimoweh' which translates as 'The Lion Sleeps'. And in response to Joe Offer in '99 Abiyoyo was also a South African folk tale made into a song by the wonderful Pete Seeger.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,bev. in pgh
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 02:52 PM

I would love to have copies of the 2 albums from the star of david singers. I had tapes that i cant find. We went to Faith Community in south hills of pgh. where i met chrissy rogers. and the star of david singers. The music was timeless and very encouraging. ty.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 04:23 PM

I think the lyrics once meant "Whiskey, the water of life" but have been sung by so many, so many times they now mean nothing. Hope this helps.J.Leach-Clark


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,J. Leach-Clark/guest
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 04:30 PM

I think the lyrics once meant "Whiskey, the water of life" but have been sung so often, by so many, they don't mean anything in their current state. Hope this helps. J.Leach-Clark


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Rumbz
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 10:25 AM

I stumbled upon this trying to find if the words we sang as a war cry at school actually meant anything. Devastated to find that flee fly is a song but quite pleased that the non commercial version is quite popular too. to add something to the mix, there was a song i learnt at school when i was about 7 and the words were

marezy-dotes and dozy dotes and liddy lambsy ivey
a kiddle dee divey doo, wood ant you. (thats about as phonetic as i can get) and then next verse which we learnt when we were 8 was

if the words sound queer and funny to your ear a little bit jumbled and jive-y, sing
mares eat oats and goats eat oats and little lambs eat ivy....

leaving me to assume the next line was a diw would eat ivy too, wouldn't you(?/ wood and chew.

i don't know but this makes me smile everytime it pops in my mind.

gutted about flee fly.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Mario
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:27 AM

I'm Romanichal- I type of Gypsy originating in England since pre-1500's. You can Wiki it.
We were persecuted by the English as were the Irish. The "highway man" lifestyles most certainly intersected.
In the Romanichal dialect this phonetic correlation:

"musha ring dumma do dumma da"
"Musha ring te m'dood te m'da", which translates to:
"The man's Ring for my star, for my Mom".

This fits perfectly with the stort from the song and validates the next line:
"Whack for my Daddy-O" which I like to believe is actually
"Worked for my Daddy-O".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,BrightonBo
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 05:45 AM

"musha ring dumma do dumma da,
Whack for my Daddy-O"

There is no question that the chorus is in Martian in order that our green brethren can sing along too!

Personally, after I've had my head buried in the Jar-O for any significant period, I prefer to translate the English lyrics into Saturnalian, which translates into: "shhhllllerrr, shhhllllerrr, I 'kin love you, shhhllllerrr, outside you ****, whack, thwack, zzzzzzzzz".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: moecurlythanu
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 04:14 PM

Does anyone know what the Irish exclamation means that sounds something like "haronumon jowl?" It shows up in "Daniel O'Connell" by Johnny McEvoy, as well as other songs.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 12 - 12:11 AM

Seems natural to us - but the whole family has Tourette's Syndrome as it turns out & we tend to an odd, jangling pattern of speech


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,P.J.Reilly
Date: 07 Jun 12 - 04:26 AM

"haronumon jowl?"

Probably a corruption of the Gaelic "In ainm an diabhail", which roughly translates as "in the name of the devil".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Vic Newfie
Date: 03 Jun 13 - 05:40 PM

Not a song but my grandfather with both Irish and Scottish roots always used to say this verse:
Onery oogery iggery Anne, fillisy, follisy, Nicholas John, coovery kivery Irish Mary, stickler em stackle em Buck! Anyone have any idea where this came from. My pop never knew where he heard it or how he came to remember it. Newfoundland where I am from is the most Gaelic influenced culture outside of Ireland, but for 30 years the meaning or origin of this "poem" or "verse" has been all but lost over here on this side of the pond. I am sure my attempt at the syntax of the words are pathetic however if said out loud it sounds right! Any help would be appreciated. Even the Dean of Folklore at Memorial University of Newfoundland was baffled! Then again, pop was a bit of a cracker........ Maybe he made it all up!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 03 Jun 13 - 10:03 PM

Guest Vic - your grandfather's words would fit to the Scottish song "Rothsea-O".
Here:


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: eftifino
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 01:37 PM

Jack, You're quite right. Lilting or 'Gob Music' was the way those without instruments were taught and learned Irish music, especially during the years where Irish Instruments, music, dance or language had to go underground due to the Penal Laws enacted by those poor misguided souls who thought that they were better than any other race in the world..


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 22 October 9:51 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.