Harp Without a Crown - Date?

Subject: Harp Without a Crown - Date?
From: Mark D (inactive)
Date: 12 Feb 99 - 08:32 PM

Mudcatters:

I'm an American Civil War reenactor. I love the fact that "Harp Without A Crown" gives us a different (and "Yankee") option for singing t "at room? It's not there today.....

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Subject: RE: Harp Without a Crown - Date?
From: Mark D (inactive)
Date: 13 Feb 99 - 12:04 PM

Somehow, this thread got messed up with the McGarrigle - Ronstadt thread. I was looking for help in dating "The Harp Without A Crown" to see if we could use it in our American Civil war impressions (pre 1865). Thanks in advance for your help.

Subject: RE: Harp Without a Crown - Date?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Feb 99 - 09:10 PM

Hi Mark, enter in the search box Bonnie Blue Flag & I'll think you'll find a civil war connection that may interest you. Barry

Subject: RE: Harp Without a Crown - Date?
From: Jack Hickman, Kingston, Ontario
Date: 14 Feb 99 - 05:08 PM

The "Harp without a Crown" was first used by the Fenians during the Rebellion of 1798. The Harp was the ancient symbol of Ireland, but when the English took control of Ireland, they adopted the Harp surmounted with the Imperial Crown as the symbol of government. It can be seen as a government symbol in Northern Ireland, as an example, the hat badges of the RUC and some British Army Regiments still contain the Harp surmounted by the Crown.

The Harp itself is still the symbol of the Republic of Ireland, and interestingly, Ireland is the only nation in the world whose national symbol is a musical instrument.

Jack Hickman

Subject: RE: Harp Without a Crown - Date?
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 14 Feb 99 - 05:34 PM

Jack

The Fenians (largely, if not exclusivley, Catholic) - came about a half-century after the 1798 rebellion, which was a more complicated beast. That said - I think the harp flag did date from the Fenains. The hat-badges in general pre-date the Irish Republic, like St Patrick's cross on the Union Flag.

Regards

Subject: RE: Harp Without a Crown - Date?
From: Mark D (inactive)
Date: 14 Feb 99 - 09:26 PM

Barry, Jack and Martin: Thanks for your interest and information. The use of the harp symbol certainly pre-dates the American Civil War. However, I was hoping to try to turn up a date for the earliest documented use of the song "Harp Without a Crown". I know that it is set to the tune of "Bonnie Blue Flag" - but that is a Confederate tune, so we can't sing it. The lads in my unit are not much taken with the lyrics of "Irish Jaunting Car". We have been enjoying "The Irish Volunteer" also set to that tune. However, if there is any provenance for the "Harp Without a Crown" song to have been in existence or use at that time, it would be very helpful. Does anyone know of the "Shenandoah" chronicled in the song? From where and when it sailed? I hope the mudcatters can help.

Your obedient servant, Mark D.

Subject: RE: Harp Without a Crown - Date?
From: Jack Hickman - Kingston, Ontario
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 12:09 AM

First to Martin.

The first mention I ever encountered of the term "Harp without the Crown" was in the book "Year of the French" which dealt with the ill-fated landing of the French in Ireland in 1798. Not necessarily authoritative, but the basis for my first statement.

And to Mark D:

Try and Get ahold of the Disc "The Irish in America" which contains a song called "By the Hush, Me Boys", in which the singer is lamenting his coming to America and being drafted into the Northern Army. It might appropriate to your needs.

Keep the Faith.

Jack Hickman

Subject: RE: Harp Without a Crown - Date?
From: Mark D (inactive)
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 02:50 PM

Jack:

Thanks for the reply. That song is actually entitled "Paddy's Lamentation" and its roots have actually been traced back to your neck of the woods, if I recall correctly. It has long been a favorite of ours for use during those moments of melancholy.

Still, "Harp Without A Crown" would be a snappy song for the march. Does anyone else have any help?

Your Obedient servant, Mark D.

Subject: RE: Harp Without a Crown - Date?
From: Mark D (inactive)
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 03:12 PM

Mudcatters:

I didn't have anything to add to this thread, I'm posting just to draw it back up on the page to see if there are any more bites. If there are none, I will let it go away and try again some other time. Thanks for your interest.

Mark D.

Subject: RE: Harp Without a Crown - Date?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 03:48 PM

Joe - needs work

Subject: RE: Harp Without a Crown - Date?
From: RTim
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 07:58 PM

Are you sure Joe?....It is only 22 years since the post before yours.....

Tim Radford