Help: Simple Noteworthy Composer question

Subject: RE: Help: Simple Noteworthy Composer question
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 06:03 PM

Thanks, KJ! I will look into right now.

kat

Subject: RE: Help: Simple Noteworthy Composer question
From: GUEST,Kernow Jon
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 03:47 PM

Kat
A program that does all you seem to need is Winjammer and a shareware version can be had from http://www.winjammer.com/
It's easy to set up and is very good at finding your midi connections.
Regards KJ

Subject: RE: Help: Simple Noteworthy Composer question
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 03:14 PM

Thanks, everyone. I am going to look into Cakewalk and a couple of other things. I guess what is most important right now is being able to create a midi file for mp3, etc., and we already do have his scores written out in such fine calligraphy, they've been used for performance, but eventually we'll want to produce the sheet music, too.

I really appreciate all of your imput.

kat

Subject: RE: Help: Simple Noteworthy Composer question
From: M.Ted
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 02:41 PM

As a MacIntosh user, I can't do much to help you to figure out how to connect the keyboard.Mac is much easier to work with than PC for music. A lot of music programs (particularly the music notation programs) were originally developed for Mac and the PC versions are missing some of the capabilities that the programs typically have, and music notation programs particularly sometimes lack the MIDI conversion capabilities that you are looking for--

To create MIDI files, you need a sequencer program, and Cakewalk is a very good sequencer program, and was originally developed for PC--It isn't a shareware program, but it is fairly inexpensive, and, truth be told, Mac users have to pay considerably more to get a comparable program.

Mary's comments on the keyboard are right on the money--an inexpensive MIDI keyboard is not going to feel like a good piano when you play it, and it isn't going to track like a good piano ("tracking" means capturing what is played)--even a good all around synthesizer won't respond the same way as a piano--

Even still, when you play a composed piece into a MIDI sequencer, and it finally sounds like it should, you won't automatically be able to open it up in a notation program and get a useable score--part of the reason for this is that musical notes often don't literally represent what is being played (quarter notes, for instance, often turn up as eighth notes followed by an eighth rest, particularly if they are accented), and of course, eighth notes written in jazz/rock/blues/swing are played as if they were a dotted eighth and a sixteen note in triplets, and the program can convert them in any number of way--

The long and the short of it is that you have to go through any notation document that has been converted fro a MIDI and hand edit it a lot before it looks like real music. The people who market these programs try to create the impression that all you need to do is play into a program, push a button, and Bingo! You've got a professional recording and a musical score, but it is a bit more complicated--

Subject: RE: Help: Simple Noteworthy Composer question
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 12:01 AM

kat, I use Cakewalk and have enjoyed it. It has very good documentation which explains exactly how to input from a keyboard. (Just a simple note here...there is a midi in and a midi out on the keyboard...you haven't crossed them have you?)

As far as your brother playing the keyboard and then using that input to make a midi file...I'm skeptical. I've heard fantastic piano midis, especially at this site, The Internet Piano. (http://www.geocities.com/Paris/3486/) I will admit that I can't hear them with my new computer, just haven't had time to troubleshoot the problem. I'm not sure, but I suspect these were made with a very good (expensive) keyboard. The nuances of volume and expression are exceptional.

Let us know what you finally decide. And I would love to hear some of your brother's music.

Subject: RE: Help: Simple Noteworthy Composer question
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 07:44 PM

I have a set-up which does what you want. This is what I have: 1. A Midi keyboard by Reveal with a cable that goes from MIDI out on the keyboard to the back of my Soundblaster sound card. 2. There is another cable which connects my speakers to the sound card. 3. I have Noteworthy Composer, too. Under Tools-Options-MIDI, it shows that Available Play Devices are my synthesizer (keyboard) and SB16 MIDI out. Under Devices Used by Playback it says "MIDI Mapper", and that's all.

There is a strange new feature on the Tools-Options menu in NWC. Not all the tabs fit on the top of the dialog box, so to find the MIDI tab, you have to click on the right arrow on top of the box so that it moves over to the MIDI tab. That frustrated me for a long time.

Once you get set up, NWC should "hear" the notes played on the keyboard so you can print music. (Oh, yeah, you have to click on the little-bitty keyboard on the tool bar before the notes will register.) As mentioned before, you have to tell it the duration of the notes. Saving this kind of work makes a NWC file.

The Record feature also listens,and it makes a MIDI file. However, you have to play slowly and with almost-preternatural regularity. (Jigs and reels with all eighth notes are the most successful form.) Also - and they don't tell you this - MIDI cannot handle pick-up notes. If you import, record, or export pick-up notes, all the bar lines are messed up. So wait until you are done working with MIDI to put them in.

You can make an NWC file and save it as a MIDI file, but I forget how exactly. I'm sure you can figure it out.

I hope this helps. I don't know anything about mp3. Who needs mp3 when the dining room is awash in instruments?

Subject: RE: Help: Simple Noteworthy Composer question
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 06:52 PM

Thanks, MaryinKY and Kernow John.

I thought my question was how do I hook up my music keyboard so that I can play music on it, into Noteworthy Composer, so that I have a midi file plus something I can print out. With KJ's info, though, I think I'd better change that to what software program is best for doing that.

We want to be able to have my brother, the composer, play his compositions on the music keyboard, into the computer, to make a midi file to put on mp3, send out, etc.

I have Real Producer, NWC, and MidiNotate all downloaded, but ti sounds as though there must be something else which would work better, eh? wondering if it is the Cakewalk program I've heard others mention?

Thanks a bunch!

kat

Subject: RE: Help: Simple Noteworthy Composer question
From: GUEST,Kernow Jon
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 04:35 PM

Kat
Hope it all goes well and you get connected. Noteworthy is great for inputing notes from a keyboard, but you do have to specify the note length first. It is not designed for recording a song from a keyboard (you need something called qauntize for this unless your timing is spot on ie to 100th of a sec). It is technicaly possible but not very satisfactory. The programe is designed more as a word processor for music, and a very good job it makes of it to.
It may interest people to know that Noteworthy seem to have changed their policy with the latest revision. The trial period seems to be limited to 30 days now rather than the endless trial with limitations.
The registration in the UK cost me £30 last year and this includes all the updates as long as v1.? continues.
If the connection problem continues leave a message here as there are various steps to go through and there is a freeware prog for checking midi connections.
KJ

Subject: RE: Help: Simple Noteworthy Composer question
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 03:58 PM

kat, I'm not sure what your question is. Do you want to use the keyboard to input the data for a midi file into your computer? Or do you want to play a midi file on your keyboard? The reason I ask...I had some unfortunate experiences with this. And I found that absolutely nobody could help me with the answers. Of course, the main problem was that I didn't know what questions to ask.

My problem: I wanted to make midi files and thought drawing the notes by mouse was too slow. Since I have MS, my timing isn't perfect. I can no longer play Chopin, but hey, I thought I could at least play a melody line for faster input. Wrong. It seems that everything I tried just didn't put the notes I wanted. I even tried to input Row, Row, Row Your Boat in quarter notes and the notation came out crazy...32nd notes and ties and rests... Changing the resolution didn't help when trying to notate a long song. I had to just go back to drawing the notes with the mouse.

Now there are some fine recorded midis using a keyboard for input, but if you look at the notation, it's very hard to recognize. I transcribed a beautiful midi of Amazing Grace for Escamillo which was very easy notation, but the midi score was almost unrecognizeable.

MMario has good advice about talking to the Noteworthy folks. But if you don't know the questions to ask....or cannot define what the real problem is...well maybe we can help with some of that. PM me if this helps.

Subject: RE: Help: Simple Noteworthy Composer question
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 03:51 PM

MMario, thanks, but after reading a gazillion of the answers on there, I am more confused than ever and usually I can figure these things out!

Joe, I tried that and didn't see any evidence of the computer even trying to notice that we'd attached a new instrument to it. I went into NWC's Tools>Options>Record and the only device it showed was "AudioPCIMidiIn."

We've got the cables right, I know that much. I suspect we'll have to load somehting in, the driver or whatever, even though the keyboard didn't have a cd with it, the cable we bought does. We were just hoping to not have to load any more software into our system. It's getting packed!

Anyway, thanks, I think I'll let Rog go at it tonight, though I did want to surprise him with it working when he gets home. *sigh* :-)

kat

Subject: RE: Help: Simple Noteworthy Composer question
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 03:20 PM

Hi, Kat - First you have to set up your keyboard to play on your computer. I'm hoping your keyboard will have instructions, but it could be that all you have to do is plug it into the computer with a MIDI cable (with the keyboard and computer turned off), and then turn the keyboard on first and then the computer. Windows may be able to recognize and install the keyboard, or maybe it won't need installation at all - that depends on your MIDI keyboard and on your sound card. If you play it and can hear it on your computer, you'll know it's working.
Within Noteworthy Composer, select Tools/Options, and then select the "record" tab. The "input device" block should have a list of input devices installed on your computer. Select one, and give it a try.
I don't have a MIDI cable, so I haven't tried this. This should give you a start, though.
Good luck.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Help: Simple Noteworthy Composer question
From: MMario
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 03:03 PM

yup, kat it is possible - but you would probably be better off asking the question at the Noteworthy forum

They have some brilliant people there.

Subject: Simple Noteworthy Composer question
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jan 01 - 02:57 PM

I did my homework; hunted up all the NWC thread form the past three years and scanned or an answer. Didn't see one, so please forgive me if this is a dumb or duplicate question.

We just bought a music keyboard with midi input. We have it plugged into the computer and I want to play songs on it, into NWC. Is this possible? How? If it isn't, can I do so from Real Producer? Again, how? I also have Notation Software loaded, but cannot figure out how to make any of them communicate with the music keyboard.

Thanks for any assistance!

kat