Tech: My cookie's gone bad

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 08:48 AM

Yahoo is now 'pushing' Internet Explorer 7.0 claiming the 'your current browser may not have all desired capabilities to use the chat functions' line...

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Becca72
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 08:46 AM

It only happens with Mudcat, and it happens on both computers at my 2 separate jobs, which run different versions of windows, have totally different servers and totally different security and firewall setups.
Since it's only Mudcat doing it I'm not going to go to the trouble of tracking down IT to get it fixed. If I can't figure it out on my own, I'll just continue to reset my cookie every morning.
Now, this morning everything was fine yet I changed nothing last night. We'll see what happens on Monday, I guess.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 08:34 AM

The preliminary info on Vista is somewhat troubling to me, since I've already determined that earlier recent versions "do things for you" that I don't particularly care to have them do. With all versions through WinXP I've been able to turn off the "features" that are most annoying. It's not clear whether one will be able to do that with Vista.

It does appear that the intent with Vista is to make file organization and access "logical" - according to some unknown deviant mind at Microsoft - rather than allowing the user to put things in known real places with the expectation that they'll be there when wanted.

Without having looked at the betas it's hard to tell exactly what they're doing; but Microsoft's "Desktop Search" was presented as being "similar" with respect to the "organization and search functions." I tried it. It was useless. It disabled the normal search and display methods I'm accustomed to using, and couldn't find much of anything that I knew was there. I was not impressed.

It was announced yesterday(?) that the "new and improved" Internet Explorer 7.0 was "released to production." That's another thing I'm not sure I want, since it incorporates lots of bells and whistles - and I prefer working in peace and quiet; but it will take a while to see if it's really any good - and whether they'll "push it" with OS updates as they have with recent other versions of IE. (You may be lucky and it won't run with obsolete OS versions, but I wouldn't count on it.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 07:42 AM

Sounds like Bill had discovered the old unix 'link' and is determined to foist a stuffed up implementation of this on the world, John...

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 06:19 AM

Perhaps of interest to Jon – probably not to many others(?)

An "accidental" find in Microsoft KB Article 301057 (from 2003):

"NOTE: By design, Windows Explorer uses the Desktop.ini and Index.dat files to provide the functionality of the Temporary Internet Files shell extension. Index.dat is the Internet Explorer cache index file. It facilitates the browser cache mechanism that speeds access to frequently accessed web pages across different browser processes in the same user context.Cookies are also displayed when you view the Temporary Internet Files folder in Windows Explorer, but these files are physically stored in your Cookies folder; this is also by design."

The article applies only to "some" obsolete Win versions, but is the closest thing I've found to explaining what's going on with the dupliction in the "Cookies" file and the "Temporary Internet Files" folders. This note appears to apply to current WinXP/IE.

Latest versions of COMMAND (the replacement for DOS) add several file attributes beyond the archive, read only, system, hidden ones that were in DOS. I've not found any real information on exactly what these new attribs are, or even how many there are, and for the most part they're not "visible"; but one of the apparently common attributes permits "mirroring" the contents of one folder in another folder - the apparent method for having cookies appear in two different folders while being physically present in only one of them.

Indications are that this will be heavily used in the coming Windows Vista. Apparently Microsoft believes it's dangerous for users to know where their files are, and they intend to make it impossible for you to tell.(?)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 01:21 AM

Becca72 -

Suggestions we've made previously are what usually works, but are based on some assumptions about your setup. Everything thus far has been what should work on any recent machines with common OS versions and other common software. The few remaining "possibles" mostly are very much dependent on the exact details of your individual machines and how they're set up. Trying to troubleshoot "long distance" could require more tedious testing and reporting back and forth than I suspect you'd (or we'd) wish to try to do.

Since the problem does appear on your machine at work, if you have any kind of "tech support" there I'd strongly suggest that you contact them, since they should know the details of the system you have there. (Unless, of course, your mudcat contact is "surreptitious" and you can't let them to know about it?) Unless your office support people are unusually unfriendly (or maybe just typically overloaded) they should be willing to give you at least an outline of what problems they might find for use on your home machine.

While I don't find any reports of the identical error message you're getting, there are several "suggestive" articles about similar problems at Microsoft support. Most of the "most likely" candidates are rare and do require testing to find and verify, and relatively complex procedures to fix. Most are also very much dependent on the particular machine and software setup, and using an inappropriate one could cause other problems.

Probably the #1 cause for problems similar to what you're getting come from "third party programs" and most frequently from things like toolbars. Any new toolbar, or an update to an existing one would be suspect. (Add on utilities to "do better" the things that Windows is already equipped to do are frequent culprits.) Most such accessories can be "uninstalled" (temporarily?) to see if the problem goes away. Quite a few of the appropriate diagnostics require Safe Boot or Clean Boot procedures.

Possibly second in line would be AntiVirus programs. Some AV programs, some firewalls, and a few other anti-malware programs "lock" the Temporary Internet Files and Cookies during scan, and occasionally may fail to "unlock" them. Their "quarantine" function sometimes locks individual files but leaves them on the drive. This may prevent the "delete files" functions in IE from removing them, so a corrupt cookie could remain "readable" but would be seen as corrupt when the site tries to "refresh" (edit) the cookie. (Each cookie normally records the most recent access date and time, which requires an "edit" at each opening of the site.) A recent update may have changed settings in your AV or firewall, especially suspect if both your machines use the same programs. Most such programs can be told to "not lock" the Temporary Internet folder files, but it often takes some major digging about in the AV program instructions to find where to do it, and different programs use different nomenclatures to describe what you need.

Rarely, errors similar to what you see may be caused by a corruption of the "user identity" folder in Windows. It's difficult to see how two machines could become corrupt in the same way at the same time (except possibly by a malware infection). The solution here is to create a new user, copy the old user folder data to the new user account folder, change the user name in the new folder, and then delete the old user. In some cases, deletion of specific individual files in the folder may be needed as part of the process. The procedure isn't complex, but requires a fairly specific series of steps and "administrator" privileges you probably don't have at the work machine. Doing steps in the wrong order, or with the wrong login (user vs administrator) for a specific step, can cause bigger problems than you have now.

If you can think of any new clues, don't hesitate to post them here; but with what's known at this point someone who can "lay hands on" one or the other of your computers is probably your best bet.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Becca72
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 08:32 AM

How right you are, Fooles....it's still not fixed. Harumph.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 08:55 PM

Maybe it's just the 'refrain'.... ;-)

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Becca72
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 06:38 PM

Well, I cleared out ALL cookies again and I also deleted ALL temporary files and I think maybe, just maybe my problem is solved. When I came to Mudcat tonight on work computer #2 I did not get the corrupt cookie message. Could this be the end of it?

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 09:39 PM

I'm beginning to believe there's a blues song in this...

"My cookie's gone bad..."

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 07:32 PM

Yeah, I discover that one lurking in my Spybot, while looking inside it, but I hadn't turned it on.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 06:24 PM

Becca72:

Assuming that both your computers are using the same WinXP and IE, and both receive automatic updates, an automatic update might have changed both computers at about the same time, which would explain the appearance of the same problem on both machines. This lends credibility to the assumption that your problem is in normal setup, and lessens (but doesn't eliminate) the likelihood that both your machines have encountered the same malware.

Many of the add-on toolbars and other accessories that may have been added to your machines now offer (frequently without telling you) their own automatic updates, or have added "new features" to the downloads you make manually, so it's possible that some "other" program could have changed your machines both at about the same time. Programs that are on only one of the two machines probably can be ignored.

If both your machines can connect to the same work network, it's possible that your "IT expert" at work (Tech Support or SysAdmin) has invoked general rules that change the way cookies are handled. Assuming that your home machine doesn't connect, this possibility probably can be ignored, although if you've installed an "update" that you received through your workplace it would still be possible.

The IE update that made significant changes to how IE behaves in the various browsing zones was some time ago, and it apparently didn't cause you any problems. Computers using the default zone settings have not, so far as I've seen, reported recent changes in behavior; but if your settings were/are other than the defaults it's possible that a recent update may have changed things. Your workplace probably has some sort of Tech Support, and an inquiry about why your work machine refuses to retain cookies might lend some insight. (It could be company policy to restrict employees login to other places?)

IF you're using mudcat as your home page, and have been deleting cookies in IE, it is possible that the "crumbled cookie" was not deleted, since "open files" can't normally be cleared. IE doesn't report to you that the deletion was "incomplete," so your mudcat cookie (the bad one) might have been "open" and not deleted.

You can use the procedure described above at 16 Oct 06 - 07:01 PM to more reliably clear all cookies. This procedure is normally included in Microsoft literature only when you really have to be assured of "complete cleaning," but is usable any time:

1. Close all the programs that show in your main Window and/or on your task bar at the bottom.
2. Click Start|Settings|Control Panel.
3. Double Click Internet Options. The window that opens will look just like what you got at Tools|Internet Options in IE.
4. On the General tab, click Delete Cookies.

Note that on the General tab, in the Temporary Internet Files box, if you click the Settings button, and then click "View Files" it should show you everything in your Temporary Internet Files folder, so you can confirm that all the cookies are gone.

(The "Settings" window is also where you can look to see that you have a reasonable amount of drive space allowed for the Temp Internet folder and can find where the folder is located if you need that information.)

With all the cookies gone, you need to enter mudcat.org in the Tools|InternetOptions, on the Privacy tab, and get it into the list with the notation "Always Allow." It is critical that the mudcat.org be spelled exactly right. One way of eliminating human error is:

At the mudcat site in IE - (you don't necessarily need to be logged on).
1. Click on the address bar at the top of the IE window.
2. Make sure that the entire address is highlighted.
3. Control-C to copy the address from the address bar.
4. Click Tools and then Internet Options.
5. Click the Privacy tab
6. Click the Sites button
7. The Sites window should open with the insertion point in the edit box. Control-V to paste the address in the box.
8. Click the ADD button, and make sure that the option "Always Allow" is applied.

When you paste a "detail" URL IE normally will automatically convert it to the "site URL." It may or may not ask you to verify; but by copying from a known good URL and pasting directly to the box, you mostly eliminate the possibility of an extraneous dot or space that might look good but would be incorrect.

In IE, at Tools|Internet Options:

1. On the Secutiry tab the highlight should be on "Internet Zone."
2. On the Privacy tab the setting should be at "Medium High."
3. On the General tab there's a box to enter how long to keep "History." The common setting is 10 days.

The first two of the above settings invoke default policies that apply to all network stuff. Other settings may be justified, but can significantly affect your browsing joy.

The Internet Zone is the least restrictive setting available, since it includes "everything that isn't separately specified." With default settings, there still are a number of blocked functions; but these should be overridden only when there's a good reason.

Setting the Privacy tab higher than the "Medium High" value in some cases requires that you create more complex rules in order to do almost anything useful with your browser. Setting to a lower value may expose you to lots more cookies and popups than most would want. This is the "default" setting currently recommended by Microsoft.

With current IE updates you probably will have a "popup blocker" on the Privacy tab. Don't worry if it's not there, but if it's present you probably will want it turned on, and set to the "block most popups" setting. I've also found a very few sites where I've had to use the "Settings" button in the popup blocker to allow their popups in order to get access to them, but mudcat isn't one of those.

In IE, on the Tools drop down, there's also an item called "Manage Add-ons." If your problems are being caused by some "extra" little utility, it's likely that the culprit will be shown here unless it's real spyware or other malicious junk, in which case it may be hidden. A quick check to see if there's anything in the list that's suspicious might help.

I'll note that one "suspicious" entry in the Manage Add-ons list on my machine is from "Safer Networking" - a company I hadn't realized I knew. This happens to be a Spybot S&D utility that Spybot "added as part of an update" (without my realizing it) that claims to be a "bad download blocker." It seems harmless, but illustrates the ease with which "unexpected help" gets foisted upon us.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Becca72
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 08:29 AM

My cookie problem persists. I have now deleted all cookies and reset them 3 times and added Mudcat to my "always allow" section, and this morning I still get the "your cookie is corrupt" message when I first get here. Mudcat is the only site that's doing this, too (at least for me).

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 08:23 AM

""proved" that vacuum tubes were better switches for computers than those new-fangled transisters"

Well they did - at the time - but as trannies got faster, smaller and used less power, his opinion was obsolete...

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 06:10 AM

Just the general picture of 2 levels of control, system and individual browsers, John.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 05:59 AM

Jon -

I'm not sure how much clarifying has been done. Mickey is really vague about the details of how all this stuff works, and I have negligible experience with other browsers.

The real problem with problems like Becca's is that it often takes a lot of digging about, even once the problem is identified if it's something new; and the answers I have "on tap" are only the ones for the problems I've had, or sometimes where we've found some clues here previously. Without hands-on at a strange machine it's a guessing game at best, trying to sort out what's really happening.

(During my early training, the Dean of the EE Dept made a guest appearance in my Jr yr "computing" class (a Signal Analysis thing) and "proved" that vacuum tubes were better switches for computers than those new-fangled transisters. It's been hard keeping up since.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 05:18 AM

Thanks for clarifying Windows things, John.

Glad it stuck, Jeri.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 09:53 PM

Tip for anyone this might help: You can't edit the 'exceptions'. You have to delete it and go back in so that you're asked whether you want to allow, allow per session, or deny. It stuck after I did that.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 09:47 PM

John, I know what you're saying about system control and how you think it should work, but I've run 3 different browsers on my computer, and had different settings on each for cookes. Changing settings on one browser never has affected the other browsers.

Jon wins. Gremlins must have changed something.
Tools/Options/Privacy/Cookies/Options. Mudcat was in there, but marked 'allow per session', which I somehow missed a little while ago. (I'm blaming it on frustration.) I have yet to try to see if the cookie stays when I close Firefox, but I'm pretty sure it will. Thanks guys!

I hope Becca's solved her cookie problem.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 08:48 PM

Jon -

You get the same choices in IE if you're using the latest versions and especially if you use the WinXP firewall. Without the firewall, you may have to click Tools | Popup blocker and/or Internet Options, Privacy tab, and enter the site name to give permission. You also get the same options with the Google Search Toolbar.

The difficulty comes from differing definitions of what (and how much) you're giving permission for with the various programs.

The latest versions of IE should default to "Internet Zone" security level on the web, and this defaults to "block most cookies." Your browser should take instructions from the system settings, and should enter exceptions you make while browsing in the standard places. Failure to do these would make most Sys Admins bald in a week or two if they've got many "creative" users on their nets. They really do, sometimes, need to be able to set group policies, and to expect programs to live with them.

This selection, to always accept cookies from a specific site, is a "System Control" and should apply to any browser that you want to use, if the browser is fully compliant with Windows (but lots of very good programs don't bother with all the little details, so you never know).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 08:29 PM

John, on Firefox, when asked, you should get a dialog with the choices "allow", "allow for session" and "deny".

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 08:23 PM

If you're set up to "ask me every time" you may get a proliferation of cookies. Depending on your setup, usually you'll get only a session cookie with this setting.

I often find several mudcat cookies, which I attribute to mudcat keeping track of things like which threads I've looked at so that the colors can be changed. Cookies are editable by the site that gives them to you, if only by replacement or by loading a newer one.

At Internet Options, Privacy tab, click "Sites" and type mudcat.org in the box and then click "Allow" and mudcat.org will be entered as an exception so that it won't ask everytime (at mudcat), and your login cookie should be persistent. (according to theory, at least)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 08:20 PM

Dunno... Is it just Mudcat - How about in Exceptions? something got set to allow for session instead of allow? Guessing here...

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 07:57 PM

First thing, Jon. I checked to see if it had changed, and it hasn't. "Ask me every time."

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 07:53 PM

Jeri, have you tried Tools/Options/Privacy/Cookies(tab)

And checked the Keep Cookies option?

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 07:50 PM

One other thing with cookies and expiry dates, useless info but... I delete a cookie by setting it with an expiry date. In this case, the expiry date is some time in the past.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 07:47 PM

John, thanks, but...
I've looked everywhere I can think of in Firefox. MSIE is fine, and up until yesterday, so was Firefox, which I've been using for at least a couple of years. Something changed, and I'm not aware of doing anything to change it. I can accept cookies with no problem. It just bins them whenever I close Firefox. Maybe it's an anti-nastyware program that updates automatically, but I don't know why it would zap Firefox cookies and not MSIE ones.

Oy.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 07:29 PM

I use Web Developer on Mozilla based browsers. One of the many things with that is view the cookie information for a web page.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 07:23 PM

I use IE-CookieView to purge my cookies regularly.

It doesn't always clean them all out - so I also use EmpTemp, which cleans all sorts of 'temporary files' as well - especially those markers that allow MSIE to 'remember' that you have visited a page recently, as well as any other files with any specified extension in any other directory that you specify.

I got them off the web from sites specialising in freeware downloads.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: terrier
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 07:23 PM

Thanks Foolestroupe....
I seem to have missed that bit of history.....No TV you see.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 07:17 PM

"But WHY are they called 'cookies' or is that a stupid question?"

Well, long before UNIX, long before the days of even the thought of PCs, someone wrote a cute little piece of code that ran on multi-user time sharing systems that used paper or video terminals. It would look at a list of the running processes, grab a terminal and send "Gimme Cookie!" - the cry of The Cookie Monster from Sesame Street (which was new at the time).

It would keep popping up more persistently until you typed 'Cookie', and then it would go away for a while.

Such is "Culture", that 'everybody' (involved with 'serious computing') KNEW what a 'cookie' was back then... and so the term was later used for the little token passed back and forth...

I'm not sure if the original RFC given the origin...

:-)

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 07:16 PM

Weird John...

Some of what you describe sounds to me more "buggy" than design.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 07:01 PM

The instructions at 10 Oct 06 - 05:50 PM for registering a site to be "always allowed" are the usual (simple) method, and usually they work okay. In some cases, however, if IE is open when you clear temporary internet files and cookies, a few things "in use" at the time of the cleaning may not be deleted.

If you CLOSE your browser(s), and go to Start | Settings | Control Panel and double click on "Internet Options" you'll get the same window as when you go to Tools | Internet Options from inside IE. The difference is that since IE (or your other browser) isn't open, none of the files you want to remove should be "in use" and everything should get cleaned out.

With IE open and "at" mudcat, it's possible that Delete Cookies would fail to delete the (corrupt?) mudcat cookie because the cookie file was "opened to read." Closing the browser, and doing the same "Delete Cookies" via Control Panel should assure removal.

For Jeri:

Since this is a "system setting" putting mudcat.org into the "allow" list at the Internet Options, Privacy Tab, Sites button, should apply to any (Windows compliant) browser used with the system; but that can't be guaranteed, so those using another browser may need to look for a place to set a permission of this kind within their other browser.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 06:37 PM

Jon -

The Wiki article gives the general outline of how cookies are supposed to work, but I find some deviations in how Windows handles them. Unfortunately Microsoft doesn't provide much info - that I've found - on the exceptions.

As you've indicated, and as stated by the Wiki article, a session (temporary) cookie has no expiration date and should disappear at the end of the session.

A session should end when your browser is closed, not necessarily when you leave one site to go to another; but it's not clear that Windows always follows that practice.

In some cases it appears that a session cookie is invalid if you leave the site and return, but in other cases it remains until the browser is closed.

I also find a number of session cookies that do NOT disappear completely even after exiting the browser, running Disk Cleanup, and rebooting.

I also find a small number of persistent (with expiry dates) cookies that remain on my machine well after the expiration dates have passed.

The "cookie blocker" in IE generally blocks cookies from sites that do not have an "identity certificate" and/or a "privacy policy" conforming to "Microsoft's standards." When cookies are blocked by IE (and/or by the WinXP firewall), there should be a notice, and you can click on the notice and select whether to "allow for this session only" or "always allow for this site."

The notice and permission you give may also apply to site popups, XML content, etc. Giving permission to a site via the blocker does not appear to "register" the site in the normal place cited above where one manually lists "always allow" permissions.

Microsoft is vague about whether a persistent (with expiry date) cookie accepted during a "this session only" visit remains present for future sessions. Some information implies that one of these "one-shot" cookies may be modifed so as to be deleted at end of session. Any such modification possibly would result in a corrupted cookie, if the cookie remained on the computer. Conflicting (and similarly vague) info appears elsewhere. In general, a persistent cookie downloaded by giving permission via the blocking utilities will NOT be usable at a subsequent session, althoough there may be exceptions.

A number of "add-on" utilities also incorporate cookie and popup blockers. The basic Google search toolbar is one example. Usually if the WinXP firewall and/or cookie/popup blocker objects to something, it's blocked before the Google toolbar sees it. Sometimes a permission given via WinXP allows Google to object, requiring you to give the same or similar permission to the Google toolbar to get the content passed through to your machine. In very rare instances the Google blocker has indicated something blocked, permission is given to pass it, and subsequently the WinXP blocker complains, requiring a second permission.

A number of other utilities incorporate blocking of "undesirable content" of various, sometimes vaguely defined, kinds. Any such utility is at least a "suspect" in a case of unexpected cookie behavior.

The "standard" look at cookies is via Windows Explorer, at C:\Documents and Settings\username\Cookies. In this view, the expiration date is not displayed, so one can't really tell what kind of cookie a given one is.

The alternate place to look is again in Windows Explorer, at C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files. At this location, one finds all the "temporary internet files," including cookies, and the expiration dates for cookies are displayed.

(The cookies listed in these two places do not necessarily agree with each other, although the differences should be minor. The two listings apparently serve different purposes, although Microsoft assumes you're too dumb to understand those purposes so they don't explain.)

John (pausing to reflect on 42)

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 05:08 PM

I started having a problem yesterday. Firefox thinks the cookies expire at the 'end of session'. (I looked - that's what it said.) I have to log in every damned time I open the browser.

MSIE keeps the cookies, but I much prefer using Firefox.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: terrier
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 04:49 PM

*** term "cookie" is derived from "magic cookie," a well-known concept in UNIX computing which inspired both the idea and the name of HTTP cookies.***

But WHY are they called 'cookies' or is that a stupid question?
I thought a cookie was a type of sweet biscuit.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 02:47 PM

Wikipedia article on cookies (here.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 02:21 PM

Also, I see John has referred to "temporay cookies" which I think are also known as session cookie.

The way it works is when we send a cookie, we may or may not send an expiry date (which may be years into the future for "never"). If we supply no expiry date, the cookie lasts until the end of the session, ie. the browser closed.

I suppose a browser can do anything it wants but really the nature of the cookie, ie temporary (intended to last for the duration of a session) or persistant (intended to last for a given time even if the browser is closed) is set by the server.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 01:59 PM

An expired cookie should not exist (or at least not be causing the browser to send anything), not be corrupt.

Try manualy deleting the cookie again. Maybe there is something wrong with the file system if it keeps doing this?

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: GUEST,Becca72
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 01:50 PM

Sorry, the above Guest was me, sans cookie

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 01:49 PM

I've just done the whole process again in hopes that I just mucked it up on Friday.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Becca72
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 01:47 PM

Yes, I did enter mudcat in "always allow cookies" just after I deleted all my cookies on Friday.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 12:15 PM

As I have no patience for such things I just deleted my cookies and *ahem* started from scratch

But DID YOU ENTER mudcat.org to ALWAYS ALLOW COOKIES in your Internet Options? If you didn't, you're probably still getting a single-visit temporary cookie, that will always be "corrupt" (=expired) when you reopen your browser.

See above at 10 Oct 06 - 05:50 PM.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Becca72
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 08:53 AM

Ok, so here we are again. Monday morning and I can't wait to see what's new on the 'cat. I deleted my cookies on Friday figuring I'd just start all over again, and this morning I got the same "Corrupt Cookie" message. WTF??

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Becca72
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:18 AM

As I have no patience for such things I just deleted my cookies and *ahem* started from scratch. Lo and behold, the problem appears to be fixed.

Thanks very much, John!

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 05:47 PM

Setting to permit cookies from mudcat won't necessarily get rid of an old corrupt one. If you do the setup to allow mudcat.org, then log out, and then log back in, you should get a new login cookie that should stick.

The drastic step is in IE, Tools, Internet Options, and hit the "Delete Cookies" button, but that will delete all your cookies and you'll have to log in again for anyplace where it's required.

Less drastic, but a little more time consuming, in Windows Explorer you can go to "Documents and Settings," click on your User Name, and then Cookies, where you could go through all your cookies and find the "mudcat" ones and delete just them. This would let you log into mudcat again and get a fresh one that should stick.

After you put the "Always allow mudcat.org" into your IE setup, you may have to log off at mudcat and log back in to get rid of the old crumbled cookie.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Becca72
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 05:32 PM

Ok, I've just gotten to work at my 2nd job, and after trying the fix JohninKansas gave me yesterday my cookie is still corrupt.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Becca72
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 01:38 PM

a slice of bread in the cookie jar works, too...
So far so good after a midday reboot.
Thanks everyone for the help!

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 09:07 PM

Putting stale cookies for a short time in a warm oven, or even a short period in a microwave, will often freshen them up.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: jeffp
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 07:21 PM

Do you reboot during the day or only in the morning. I suspect that it's the rebooting that triggers the problem. You might experiment by exiting from IE and restarting it to see if the problem recurs, then if it doesn't, reboot the machine to see if that replicates the problem.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Becca72
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 06:42 PM

JohninKansas,
I will certainly try that and let you know tomorrow if it works.
I can leave and come back to Mudcat throughout the day and the cookie stays fresh, but during the overnight all hell breaks loose and I get the "corrupt" message the first time I try to access the site the next day. Fingers crossed this fixed it!

Corrupt cookies, roving gangs of 'keep left' signs, what's next??

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 06:12 PM

Jon -

I've seen babbling from "volunteer experts" elsewhere claiming that the "permissions" get stored centrally and that other browsers can share the same information; but I don't put a lot of credibility in the sources of that info. I don't find any confirmation from Microsoft of any "sharing of info" of that sort.

The IE update didn't really change the way anything works, but it did move cookies up in the hierarchy of what each of the Security and Privacy settings does automatically, so that now the default "Internet Zone" and the "Medium High" privacy settings do - with respect to cookies - what more restrictive levels used to do.

There also is the possibility that a firewall, and/or a "cookie blocker" program could be interfering, but usually in that case the login never works at all. In this case it seems the login works, but doesn't stick, which is one of the reported behaviors fixed by the settings described - in IE.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 06:03 PM

I don't think it's likely that MS will have devised a way to overrule another browser's cookie settings.

...Well at least not on Win 2K. I suppose anything is possible on XP onwards. The paranoid element in me says MS will not be satisfied until they have complete contol over every element of a user's computing.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 05:50 PM

A fairly recent update to Windows (WinXP and Win2K in particular) and to Internet Explorer changed the way IE handles sites without security certificates.

Mudcat does not have a security certificate.

If you use the default (recommended) browser settings of "Internet Zone" for the Security general setting, and "Medium High" for the Privacy general setting, IE will usually accept a temporary cookie, but the cookie crumbles as soon as you leave the site.

In Internet Explorer, click on "Tools" on the top bar.

Choose "Internet Options."

Click the "Privacy" tab at the top of the window that opens.

In this window, the recommended setting is "Medium High." There is a button lower down in the window labelled "Sites."

Click the "Sites" button.

In the top box in the window that opens, type:

mudcat.org

Click the button that says "Allow."

"mudcat.org should appear in the lower box, with the notation "Always Allow."

You should get a "permanent" cookie the next time you log in, and it should not crumble everytime you leave the mudcat site.

Note that IE performs some internal security handling functions in Windows, even if you're using another browser. If you prefer something else, you should find a similar place where you can designate mudcat.org as an "always allowed" site in whatever other browser you use. If you can't find the setting in your other browser, making the change in IE may pass the info to other browsers on your machine, but I can't offer any assurances of it.

Of course, you may have some special condition that's reserved for special people, but for most people who've had "cookie crumbs" recently the above should fix it.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 05:37 PM

Sounds like one of them nature documentaries.

When cookies go bad.

I can just see it now. People with legs missing being interviewed. Wildlife experts telling you you should lie down and pretend you're a log...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 05:20 PM

yup, I two have had dirty rotten cookies on my two computers... doh!!

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: jeffp
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 04:56 PM

If they both received automatic updates from Microsoft or the maker of a firewall (it's not inconceivable that they would both use the same firewall software) then I could see it happening in two places at approximately the same time.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Becca72
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 04:07 PM

Joe,
The 2 computers are not networked to each other, as they are for 2 separate companies...
I've done the steps you listed so fingers crossed my cookie will be alright tomorrow.

Thanks!

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 04:00 PM

Well, if the computers are networked, it would seem to follow that firewall settings could change. Try this:

• Close all other windows and browser tabs on your computer except this one.
  
• Click this logout link
  
• Logout a second time to clear all traces of Mudcat cookies.
  
• Click this login link and log in.

I don't know if this will work because your situation is a bit unusual, but it's worth a try.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 03:58 PM

Possibly not, but sometimes the Settings for cookies seem to reset themselves.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Becca72
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 03:50 PM

It's been several months since I joined the site and the problem has only started in the last few days. I can't imagine that 2 separate computers have changed their firewall settings at the exact same time?

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: jeffp
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 03:41 PM

It might have something to do with the firewalls at the job sites.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Becca72
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 03:29 PM

BillD,
Yes, I work 2 jobs and use both those computers to access the site. It's been happening on both daily for about 3 or 4 days. It does let me reset them fairly easily, but I didn't know if it was something wrong with me or the site...

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 03:03 PM

on two different computers? That IS strange...usually it's a local setting.

Put up with it as long as you CAN still set your cookie....if it continues, we'll investigate.

Subject: RE: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 02:04 PM

You appear to be logged in just fine....

Log out. Clear your cookies and re-log in

Subject: Tech: My cookie's gone bad
From: Becca72
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 01:56 PM

Sorry if this is a repeat threat. I looked on the FAQ's but didn't see anything.
Each day when I start up my computer and come here to Mudcat I get an error message that tells me my cookie has been corrupted and I must reset it. It's been going on for about 3 or 4 days, and happens on 2 different computers that I use regularly (daily) to access this site. Is this something I'm doing wrong, or is it a "cat" issue?