Subject: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Spiritwhale@earthlink.net Date: 07 Oct 01 - 01:37 AM Hi Folks! I was wondering if any of you knew of a folk group called The Womenfolk. I think they came in just as Folk was going out! I have been searching for their records and/or CD's for a while and have come up with nothing! If anyone can guide me to these items...I'd appreciate it! Thanks! Roger Related threads: |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: rangeroger Date: 07 Oct 01 - 02:11 AM Oh boy, Oh boy another Roger. Good name. There have been several threads here in the past on the Womenfolk. If you go to the Forum search,enter Womenfolk in the filter box and set the date for a couple of years,you should find lots of info. I have 3 of their 5 albums. rr |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: MAG Date: 07 Oct 01 - 10:57 AM They can be hard to find: I'm one who was on the lookout for their stuff and gradually got it all. Bookfinder and/or amazon.com are places to try. One I got at Vinyl Resting Place in Portland Oregon. One I got at Crossroads used music place on Hawthorne in Portland, but you need to plan some time to go through all their stuff -- no index, shelved by consigner. Good luck. |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 08 Oct 01 - 05:44 AM Perhaps those who want to divide up the Mudcat would consider a forum for Rogers only! Must be about 8 of us by now! RtS |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Dec 01 - 12:27 AM The Mudcat Café TM /thread.cfm?threadid=42249 2 messages
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Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: Allan C. Date: 19 Dec 01 - 05:28 AM Here is another related thread. |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: Steve in Idaho Date: 19 Dec 01 - 09:56 AM I'll bet (Folk Legacy) has some of their stuff. They have everything there! Steve |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: Ron Olesko Date: 19 Dec 01 - 10:45 AM Okay, I'm curious now. After seeing this post and following instructions, I can't find anyone who answered the question that this thread posed - where are the Womenfolk? I'm not referring to their albums, but what became of the 5 members of the group? This past weekend I played a cut from the Hungry I album on my show and became curious. It was nice to see someone has resurrected this thread. Anybody have any idea of "where are they now?" Ron |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Dec 01 - 02:09 PM I can't say I'm familiar with the Womenfolk at all. Who were the members of the group? Can anybody give us a bit of a discography, naming the cuts on their albums? The links I gave a bove give a very sketchy discography. I guess I kind of wrote them off as a folk-pop group, but it sounds like a number of people here are familiar with them. I don't think you'll find them at Folk-Legacy, but it's quite likely that Collector's Choice Music or Rediscover Music would come up with a restrospective of this group. They have nothing out yet, but they keep a steady flow of new reissues. I just got a Back Porch Majority CD from Collector's Choice, and I was very pleased to get a We Five 2-LP CD from them a while back. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: artbrooks Date: 19 Dec 01 - 02:45 PM According to my (one) album, "The Womenfolk", RCA Victor LPM-2832, the members of the group were Elaine Gealer, Joyce James, Leni Ashmore, Babs Cooper and Judy Fine. This one includes "Don't You Rock 'em Daddy-O"; "Little Rag Doll"; "Para Bailar la Bamba"; "One Man's Hands"; "Whistling Gypsy Rover"; "Green Mountain Boys"; "Skip to My Lou"; "Love Comes A-Tricklin' Down"; "Little Boxes"; "Old Maid's Lament"; "Rickety Tickety Tin"; and "Good Old Mountain Dew" (sic throughout). |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Frank Date: 19 Dec 01 - 06:08 PM Years ago, Joyce James was in California. Frank |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: Allan C. Date: 19 Dec 01 - 06:20 PM Thanks,Frank; but years ago ALL the Womenfolk were in California. |
Subject: Womenfolk Discography From: raredance Date: 19 Dec 01 - 07:41 PM Joe, your wish is my command. We Give A Hoot - The Womenfolk, The Villagers - A Live Hootenanny at the Ice House in Pasadena RCA Victor LSP-2821, members LeniAshmore, Joyce James, Babs Cooper, Judy Fine, and Terry Harley. Songs by the Womenfolk - Womenfolk (Stanley Styne) A Hundred Miles (trad) Jane Jane (trad) Mrs. McGrath (trad) Turn Around (Reynolds-Greene-Belafonte) Hard Times Cottonmill Girls (trad) Songs by the Villagers - Good News (trad) Run Molly (trad) Land of Odin (trad) Sing Early in the Morning (Steve Cohen) Kum Ba Ya (trad) Down By the Riverside (trad)(Womenfolk & Villagers) "The Womenfolk" RCA Victor LPM (LSP)-2832, the members of the group were Elaine Gealer, Joyce James, Leni Ashmore, Babs Cooper and Judy Fine Don't you Rock 'em Daddy-o (trad) Little Rag Doll (B Cooper) Para Bailar la Bamba (trad) One Man's Hands (P Seeter-A Comfort) Skip To MU Lou (trad0 Love Come A Tricklin' Down (L Kahn- B Kahn) Little Boxes (Reynolds) Old Maid's Lament (trad) Rickety Tickety Tin (Tom Lehrer) Good Old Mountain Dew (trad) Never Underestimate the Power of The Womenfolk RCA Victor LSP-2919, Members- Jean Amos, Leni Ashmore, Barbara Cooper (she had enough of the "Babs" stuff), Judy Fine, Joyce James. Davey's Come Home (B Cooper) The Best Is Yet To Come (E Sheldon) Ten O'Clock All Is Well (Gibson-Camp) Morning Dew (trad) I Wish You Were Here (Reynolds) Two Fair Maids (E Gealer) White Lilacs (Klimes) One by One (McKeun) Once Upon a Springtime (E Gealer) Bring Me A Rose (E Sheldon The Womenfolk at the hungry i RCA Victor LSP-2991, members same as LSP-2919 Womenfolk (Stanley Styne) Hey Nelly Nelly (Shel Silverstein-Jim Friedman) First Battallion (Bob Camp-Shel Silverstein) Water Wheel (Tom Lane) Our Love Is Special (Elaine Gealer) The Ballad of Murder, Incorporated Richard Powell-Ernie Sheldon) Georgia Road (Tom Lane) Da Da Da Da Dum Da (Elaine Gealer) Jane Jane (arr. Womenfolk) Never Wed an Old Man (arr. Womenfolk) Silver Daggers (arr. Womenfolk) Farewell Brother (Billy Edd Wheeler) Man Oh Man! RCA Victor LSP-3527. Members same as previous Reno Nevada (R Farina) The Maybe Song (Dave Arkin, George Smith) The Last Thing On My Mind (T Paxton) Baby What You Do To Me (Jimmy Reed) Yesterday (McCartney- Lennon) The Times They are A-Changin'(B Dylan) Sunrise, Sunset (J Bock- S Harnick There Is Beauty In The World (Jimmy David) Meditation (Antonio Carlos Jobim- Norman Gimbel) Man, Oh Man (Will Holt- Bernardo Segall) How Easy We Forget (Ernie Sheldon)(Same song as "Bring Me A Rose" above) Quittin' Time (Barbara Cooper) rich r |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST Date: 23 Feb 04 - 03:31 PM The last I knew, Joyce James was an owner/propriator of a book store in New York State, Judy Fine had diappeared into the woodwork of L.A. after divorcing her musician husband, Elaine Gealer was replaced in the group by Jean Amos who, along with Babs Cooper kinda dropped out of sight after the Womenfolk broke up. Leni Ashmore had the distinction of performing in the original cast of the musical "HAIR", produced in L.A. by Tom Smothers. Brent Hardwick |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: Allan C. Date: 23 Feb 04 - 03:37 PM Great update, Guest! Thanks! |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Becky L Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:39 PM I have my dad's Womenfolk album (I'm listening to it now!). I thought this was their only album until checking on the internet, but even though they were more prolific than I thought, there's still very little info out there about them. Were any of the LP's made into tapes or CD's? My sisters are jealous that I have the one and only album! We used to fall asleep to a stack of folk albums when we were in grade school, The Womenfolk, Kingston Trio, Chad Mitchell Trio, etc. |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: Allan C. Date: 26 Mar 06 - 09:32 AM Like the works of so many artists of the past, the Womenfolk albums are not generally available on CD. However, there is hope. I found a website called CD BBQ.com through which CD's of such artists can be purchased. |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: Allan C. Date: 27 Mar 06 - 06:22 AM On the other hand, I just discovered how much CD BBQ would charge to make a CD of my favorite Womenfolk album. Unless I read something wrong, it would be more than eighty dollars! I think I'll just buy the album myself on EBay or something and create my own damn CD. Eighty some dollars! Whew! |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: Janice in NJ Date: 27 Mar 06 - 08:03 AM A sad note for those who do not already know. Joyce James Gibbs, known professionally as Joyce James, died in Newmarket, New Hampshire, in 2001 at the age of 69, shortly after receiving her BA from the University of New Hampshire with a major in Women's Studies. She had worked for the university while taking classes part-time, but did not complete her degree until after she retired. The UNH now gives the Joyce Gibbs Award in her honor. Joyce Gibbs was a feminist religious activist who very involved in both the women's spirituality community of Goddess-worshipping Neo-Pagans and the Unitarian-Universalist Church. She was also involved in mainstream local politics, both in New Hampshire and in New York City where she lived for many years after the Womenfolk broke up. |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,The Womenfolk Date: 03 Apr 06 - 09:57 AM Do a search on Ebay they have their records for sale.. here is a list of albums they made: ALBUMS THAT THEY PRODUCED FOR RCA IN THE EARLY 1960'S. TITLES ARE: 1963 - WE GIVE A HOOT (A LIVE HOTTENANNY AT THE ICE HOUSE IN PASADENA) 1964 - THE WOMENFOLK 1964 - NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE WOMENFOLK 1965 - THE WOMENFOLK AT THE HUNGRY I 1966 - MAN oh MAN Bob Burke |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,jason v Date: 09 Apr 06 - 12:31 AM hey all, a friend of mine whom i jam with often recently remembered a lullaby his mom used to sing him called rag doll. he thinks it is the version by babs cooper. the lyrics that we know go: "Rag doll... why are you crying? Did your life get turned upside down? Don't you know that little boys are growing? Little Rag Dolls aren't supposed to frown." However after an exhaustive search, we cannot find the lyrics to the rest of this song. does anyone here this song.. and specifically the rest of the lyrics?! I would really really appreciate hearing anything anyone knows. I will check this thread, or i am at thelastbohemian@hotmail.com thanks for any info anyone has! jason v |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST Date: 20 Jun 06 - 05:01 PM I have checked Google and there is a political/educator named Leni Ashmore Sorenson from I think William and Mary college. I keep wondering if that is Leni Ashmore. I could kick myself for parting with all of my Womenfolk albums, because RCA is not going to re-release them. tom |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: Janice in NJ Date: 20 Jun 06 - 05:51 PM Yes, Tom, I believe it's the same woman. |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: open mike Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:07 PM I think they came in just as Folk was going out! \when did folk go out? and where did it go out to? |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: Amos Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:15 PM Wll. it must have gone out with the women folk. You know where that can lead... A |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Guest [Country Paul] Date: 16 Sep 06 - 06:00 PM Picking up this 2004 thread, The Womenfolk have come up for discussion on Spectropop, www.spectropop.com. You can view this 60's-pop-oriented discussion group and this thread linking from its main page, or find (and join) the discussion group at yahoogroups.com. Currently playing in the members-only music section is an earlier 45 Womenfolk member Babs Cooper made for Indigo in 1962, a version of The Innocents' first hit, "I Really Do," produced and arranged by Skip Battin (earlier of Skip & Flip, later of The Byrds, recently deceased). The record will be posted for a short time only, so if you're interested, join the discussion and get access to the music. I don't know who'll be reading this, since it replies to a relatively-ancient post, but I hope it gets in front of the right eyes. If someone wants to hear this off-list, my e-mail is posted at my website, www.paulpayton.com. Country Paul |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Jim in Phoenix Date: 18 Sep 06 - 04:47 AM I sure remember them. I had three of their albums. I wish I could find them on CD. They had the most beautiful voices and the most moving song/lyrics I've ever heard. I don't know the exact date of their start, but I DO remember listening to their albums in 1966. I know one can find their albums, used, on the internet, if one searches hard enough. The problem is, they ARE albums, vinyl 33 1/3 rpm records. I'd love to be able to find a remake of any of their albums on CD. If anyone knows, please drop me a note at jcncgcn@aol.com thanks ! |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Elaine Golden-Gealer Date: 25 Jan 07 - 01:45 AM I was one of the first Womenfolk...don't know where anyone from the group is now |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,bowitt Date: 05 Feb 07 - 06:07 PM I went to high school with Babs Cooper and we just had a reunion. We are looking for her so would appreciate any leads to bowitt@aol.com. Thanks in advance. |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Cate Date: 22 Feb 07 - 03:49 PM Elaine, I have all of the Womenfolk recordings but never realized that members changed until I happened upon your post. All of your voices were beautiful as were your choice of songs/lyrics. Your music is truly timeless. I was able to finally find a CD of one of the early records and have been playing it on my computer in my office at my university over the prior month. I can't count how many of my students have come to my door to inquire if this music is from a new group and how can they purchase it. Just wanted to let you know how much the Womenfolk's music has touched so many lives, even in 2007. Thanks Cate |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: MyPorch Date: 09 Jun 07 - 07:39 PM I have created a bit of a tribute that pulls together as much information as I could find about the Womenfolk. I have pictures of 4 of their 5 albums including the back cover notes as well as links including one to a video clip of the women singing. Check it out at http://www.myporchblog.blogspot.com Hopefully the tribute will bring more information out of the woodwork. |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Barbara (Babs) Cooper Date: 23 Jun 07 - 11:25 AM Ron Olesko: Regarding your Womenfolk question below. Thank you for your interest. I am here, floating in cyberspace, and some of the other Womenfolk are still around, as well. But I can't speak for them. "The Womenfolk at the hungry i" is a powerful live-performance album. There are two songs on that album written by Shel Silverstein: HEY NELLY NELLY (Shel Silverstein-Jim Friedman), a civil right song, and FIRST BATTALION (Bob Camp-Shel Silverstein), which an anti-war song, and still appropriate in America today as well as in the 1960s. Thanks again. Original Thread: Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: Ron Olesko Date: 19 Dec 01 - 10:45 AM Okay, I'm curious now. After seeing this post and following instructions, I can't find anyone who answered the question that this thread posed - where are the Womenfolk? I'm not referring to their albums, but what became of the 5 members of the group? This past weekend I played a cut from the Hungry I album on my show and became curious. It was nice to see someone has resurrected this thread. Anybody have any idea of "where are they now?" Ron |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Babs Date: 23 Jun 07 - 11:43 AM Cate: Thanks you for you comments of 22 Feb 07. Its nice to know that there are people who still appreciate our music even in 2007. Babs Cooper |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: artbrooks Date: 23 Jun 07 - 12:02 PM Babs, there are many of us out here who still appreciate The Womenfolk. And, since this has come up elsewhere, would you object to my transferring the 3 LPs I have to CD, for my own use? |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Babs Cooper Date: 24 Jun 07 - 12:16 PM artsbooks, they are your LPs, right? Do with them as you like, for your personal use, I mean. And thanks to all of you who appreciate our music still today. All of this is making me wonder if some of our music has been placed on some of the Internet Libraries? Please let me know if you are aware of anything happening in that department: five albums equal 56 songs. And keep an eye on the MyPorch "Tribute To" Blog: Tom made me aware of this forum. |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,lola mullen Date: 27 Jun 07 - 01:05 PM judy fine now goes by the name j. lalah simcoe, nee fine. she is still making music and owns a restaurant, the bluegrass grill, in charlottesville, va. her website is http://www.jlalahsimcoe.com and the restaurant menu items are delicious! hope this helps. |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:48 PM I don't reallly know, but there is a line by Cleavon Little, in "Blazing Saddles," that might cover this territory......... |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST Date: 28 Jun 07 - 03:20 PM Hey folks, so far I have caught up with three of the four living Womenfolk. I have updated the Womenfolk tribute on my blog to include some updated biographical information on Babs and Leni. Soon to have more on Judy aka Lalah Simcoe. Also, hope to eventually include information about their experiences in the group. http://myporchblog.blogspot.com/2007/06/tribute-to-womenfolk.html |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Pellucidar Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:37 AM Are there any available CD's with the Womenfolk's great recording of The Last Thing On My Mind? I've looked for this song for over ten years,\. I found it once, briefly, in stereo, on the old Napster, didn't get it recorded into my library and have still been looking for it, since. Also, are there any CD's of any other music that group did, such as an old LP album reissue? Anything leading to their music would be appreciated and helpful. |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: katlaughing Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:47 AM I would suggest you check with Dick Greenhaus, owner of the DigiTrad and also Camsco Music. If it can be had, Dick can find it. |
Subject: RE: To: Elaine Golden-Gealer/Womenfolk From: zeppolien Date: 12 Jul 07 - 10:43 AM Elaine: your 60's singing sisters are mingling again. it seems the universe is drawing us back together. hope you will come out and play. please contact with me via the mudcat café personal page. bc |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Bothell Jewelers & Collectibles Date: 18 Jul 07 - 03:37 PM I have the album 'The Womenfolk' LSP-3527 from 1966 which has 'The Last Thing on my Mind' and other great songs of that time. It is in very good condition and the cover still has the cellophane. Contact me at email bothellj.wa@verizon.net if interested or phone 425-487-2900 in the U.S. Rachman |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Jimmy Davis Date: 19 Jul 07 - 01:55 PM Babs and Elaine, Thank both of you so much for your music. In the fall of 1966 I was just getting ready to leave for basic training in the Army. Needless to say, it was a trying time for me. I heard the Womenfolk for the first time on the radio singing "The Last Thing On My Mind", and called the station for the name of the group singing. I immediately went to the Mose's Melody Shop in Little Rock, Arkansas, and bought the album. While stationed at Ft. Leonard Wood during basic training I heard the Womenfolk on the jukebox in our beer garden at the PX. I must have played that song,"The Last Thing On My Mind", a hundred times(Thank goodness it only cost a nickel each time) I still have that album, and have put it on tape so I can listen to it frequently.You, Womenfolk, have been a joy in my life since the first time I heard you at 19; I just hit 60. My wife knows all your songs, too, because I sing them all the time. Thank you for giving me the best music of my life; your music got me through some trying times in my years. |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Babs Date: 20 Jul 07 - 10:50 AM Jimmy Davis: It pleases me to know that our music was able to lift your spirits, and help you to get through that dangerous and stressful time in your life. "The Last Thing On My Mind" happens to be my favorite Womenfolk song, as well. You, of course, are our generation, but its rumored that there are those today who appreciate our music as well. Our heads are still swimming with this resurgence of interest in "our unique sound." Anyway Jimmy, Thank you for sharing you experience with us, and the other "Mudcatters" as well. Babs Cooper |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Dee Mischel Date: 25 Jul 07 - 06:47 PM In addition to all the other beautiful music, one of my favorites by the Womenfolk was "Always On My Mind"... I believe it was on a 45.. I had a roommate who had it and I taped it for my car and of course it has long since gone by the wayside..it was one of the most beautiful renditions I have ever heard and wonder if anyone else has heard it or knows where I can find it... Thanks much.. Dee |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,GUEST- vinyl junkie Date: 26 Jul 07 - 11:42 AM Babs, Elaine, and any other Womenfolk memeber who happens to be reading here: First off, I'm amused that I found this thread. But there must be something in the air. The Womenfolk's music continues to surface. Here's MY story: I collect records - to the point that I should join "vinyl anonymous". The collection runs the gambit from turn of the (1900) century Berliner discs and Edison cylinders, to LPs, to CDs - Classical, jazz, swing, rock… you get the picture. I listen to a lot of different stuff. Anyway, last night in the basement, I was finally digging through several boxes of discs that had been sitting there waiting to be sorted, listened to, filed, or just tossed. And I came across "The Womenfolk" 1964 album. Even though I lean heavy towards classical music, I'll listen to most anything - at least once. (By the way, just by way of reference, I'm 41 and youngest in a large family, so grew up with the sound of the 60s from siblings, and 40s swing from my parents.) I thought I'll throw this disc on, give it listen while I'm sorting through the stacks, and most likely ditch it in the pile headed out the door. Well, two hours later, I found myself putting it back on the stereo time and time again in-between other records I was sorting. I'm not a real big folk music fan, but your sound was great! I was surprised at how strongly this record held my attention. It's still sitting on the lid of the turntable for when I return. So, needless to say, I've found yet another group to collect. (Now where am I gonna put another record self?) Womenfolk members: Your music continues to please, amuse and lift the soul. Many thanks for your music, from a listener who rarely has the opportunity to thank the performer. Andy |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,Elaine Golden-Gealer (the shortest Womenfolk Date: 29 Jul 07 - 09:37 PM I am the long lost Womanfolk... of the long lost Womenfolk....I live in Santa Monica and have only recently started to listen to our albuns again as I transfered them to my Ipod... the harmonies are still current as were the songs... Surprised me to like the music and the singing and performances as much as I did at the time they were recorded. Babs Cooper called me today... and we spoke for the first time in over 40 years.... now I expect to reach out to Leni and Judy (now Lalah)shortly. Thank you all for still appreciating our music all these years later... I wrote several of the songs... and I think Babs wrote some as well. With love, Elaine |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: rangeroger Date: 29 Jul 07 - 11:21 PM I haven't been around the Mudcat for a while,lurking now and then, but a couple of weeks ago when I found this thread had been resurected I was flabbergasted to say the least. I is really heartwarming to see the responses,especially from the original members of the group. The Mudcat truely is a miracle and a treasure. rr |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: GUEST,To: Dee Mischel Date: 04 Aug 07 - 06:52 PM Dee - I think maybe you're confusing Willie Nelson's "Alway on My Mind" with Tom Paxton's "The Last Thing on My Mind" - Hm...very similar titles; never thought of that before. "The Last Thing on My Mind" was a single for "The Womenfolk," as well as on their "Man Oh Man!-The Womenfolk" album, but I don't think they recorded the Willie Nelson song. Curiosity |
Subject: RE: Where are the Womenfolk? From: Allan C. Date: 08 Aug 07 - 06:17 AM refresh |
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