Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 03:46 PM

Come on then Lizzie....
Give it your best shot.
(Please keep it to 100 words, there's a good thing)
100 words.
Your philosophy and reasoning why anyone should take you seriously.
Reasoned arguement would be nice, but not expected.
(No vitriol allowed.....Minus 10 points)
Off you go.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 03:54 PM

I've introduced many people to their music.


Nowt else to say, as that says it all.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Surreysinger
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 04:13 PM

And put a great many more off of it ...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 04:17 PM

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

that really does say it all. And my Dad's bigger than yours:-P

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 04:30 PM

Thanks David
The voice of reason indeed...
(Never met your Dad....Mine was quite small So you probably win on that point!)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 04:42 PM

Mmmmm, listened to AR & G during our return Aer Lingus flight from Malaga last night after 3 days in Nerja. I did change to Johnny Kidd & the Pirates for a while to see me through some bad turbulence. Oddly enough there are similarities between JK and SK's voices!!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 04:44 PM

Hit submit too soon. I was going to say that I especially enjoy the tracks with drums.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 04:51 PM

"And put a great many more off of it ..."

You see, there it is again, that same negativie put down, over and over, which seems to always come from the traditional world, eh, Irene.

Show of Hands have the biggest amount of fans on folk circuit, probably...next to The Oysterband...possibly...and that says it all.
As I said before, they don't need me to sell their music, they do that themselves..but I was pleased if *anyone* found their way to their music because of things I'd written.

Tell me though, Irene, does it make you feel good to come out with things like that? I realise that you and Ralphie are good friends, and that your take on folk music is very serious, but not everyone's is, and there's nowt wrong with that. We all love the music for very different reasons, but your reason isn't better than mine, you know.

I'll leave you guys to it, this thread is going nowhere, except down, down, deeper and down, into the same old, same old...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 05:03 PM

http://www.talkawhile.co.uk/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33725.0;attach=10088

Not the first time that SOH have gone electric!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 05:06 PM

aaarrrghhhhhhh! *groan*

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 05:56 PM

Show of Hands have the biggest amount of fans on folk circuit, probably...next to The Oysterband...possibly...and that says it all.

As we are being told not to upset certain members of this forum I do not like to contradict that obviously verifyable statement but...

It is well known to be Fairport Convention. In a recently compiled survey it was shown that while both Show of Hands and the Oysteband have a fan base of a little over 850,000, Fairport's fans did exceed 1.2 million, slightly more than Steeleye Span.

Now, what you need to ask yourself is did I make that up or not? If it is OK for some people to invent their own facts surely the same rules should apply to all shouldn't they? Is anyone going to contradict either of us? I think it would be better to not let facts get in the way of a good rant myself.

:D

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Surreysinger
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 06:44 PM

>"And put a great many more off of it ..."
>You see, there it is again, that same negativie put down, over and over, which seems to always come from the traditional world, eh, Irene.

Lisa - That was not intended as a negative put down, but more a statement of fact about what effect overkill can have (a point which has been put to you more than once over by many better souls than I over the years). I hadn't intended to post anything further to this thread at all, as those are the sort of comments that you invariably come up with. Before I depart from this thread, which as you so rightly state is retreating to the same old, same old,just a couple of comments

>>your take on folk music is very serious

Rubbish! Please, do not make assumptions about me and what I like musically. My tastes are actually quite broad,both within and outside the folk arena and I am certainly not serious about my music except when I have to be . I'm "serious" in my enjoyment of all types of music, and I've bopped to the best of the acts you have espoused in the last few years, well before you'd heard of them, and others you probably haven't discovered yet. (Oh, and maybe singing for Motorhead fans and going to a Motorhead gig immediately afterwards a couple of years ago is serious ??? I must have a think about that.)

> I realise that you and Ralphie are good friends

This really has no bearing on what I said (see my remark about the comment above). You're obviously aware that we have been working together in the last year (in fact we had never met until three years ago, and had exchanged about two sentences on Mudcat along the lines of "say hello to X for me when you go to his gig" on his part before that).My comment has nothing to do with him (indeed I haven't spoken to him for about three weeks since we spoke about a business related matter).. we are both capable of independent thought and decision at our respective ages, and I would not necessarily agree with everything he says or does, and I'm sure he'd say the same about me.

And I am now out of this conversation.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 08:05 PM

There may be some who are new to this stuff. There may even be those who have not realised that Lizzie has left this board on a number of occasions before.

Most recently she left Mudcat forever here:

Subject: Is folk music killing itself?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish - PM

.......This is my final thread on Mudcat, after being told that I don't see music in the same way as you 'musicians'...

Now having said that - anyone care to take a guess as to how long it took Lizzie (having left for ever?) to come back an post?

A day? Couple of days? A week? A month? Actually it was 7.75 hours.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 04:56 AM

(Chant)
Irenes a Folkie
Irenes a Folkie!
Well, I'm pleased to say that I'm not!
I play Concertina, and what's worse, a Duet!
What i don't understand is why Lizzie is trying to preach to the converted? What is the point?
Most people on here have musical experiences the size of elephants!
There is no reason to dissect somebodys songwriting skills (or musical techniques)
All it needs is a simple, "Hey, check out the new recording by xxxxx, available from yyyyy, I think it's really good" or, "So and so has just put a great track up on YouTube here's a link"
Now, if people respect your opinion, they will indeed check it out. Nowt wrong with that. It's called dissemination of information.
With respect Lizzie, banging on and on about some bunch of Boysies (your words) that most of us have known about for years, really does no one any favours.
I'm genuinely pleased that you've embraced this genre of music, but, please stop ramming your enthusiasms down our throats.

So in future.
1 When you find a new (to you) solo artist/band whatever...
2 Alert people to their existence (with appropriate links to websites, etc)
3 Then let us go and find them for ourselves.
4 We all know how to use the internet. we are not stupid people, and I'm sure that people would appreciate such info. Case in point, On another thread someone posted a link to a Will Fly YouTube link, with the comment...."Check this guy out..."
So I did, and it's great.
5 It does not need huge splurges of gushiness from you. It's just off putting.

And I remember John Jones doing floor spots in Whitstable folk club, before Fiddlers Dram....(precursor to The Oysters.)

Finally...Men don't like being called "Boysies" in the same way that women don't like being called "Girlies".
Faux sexual drooling is not attractive for either gender.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Surreysinger
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 08:33 AM

Damn ... just when you thought it was safe to stay out...
>(Chant)
>Irenes a Folkie
>Irenes a Folkie!
>Well, I'm pleased to say that I'm not!
>I play Concertina, and what's worse, a Duet!

That's fighting talk in some quarters Ralphie ! You're just as much of a folkie as I am ... ie your tastes are wide and broad ... and I now play concertina with L plates, and duet at that as you know only too well (nothing wrong with that) ... Having now satisfied my urge to retort on that, I'm out again.(Sorry for the thread drift - mind you, it drifted aeons ago).

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 09:38 AM

Lizzie - it seems there is a small smattering of savagery that I detect in your statement :

'And as far as Flashmeister is concerned, don't worry, sunshine, I won't ever write about your music.'

Lizzie you have never, ever seen me play nor heard any of my music, nor attended any of my sessions so you simply cannot make a snap judgement on my music or indeed me - I appear to have survived thus far without you writing about my music and shall go forth for some time to come blithely going about my business without suffering for your lack of writing about my music. Is it because Ralphie expressed a fleeting interest in me that I am now a 'baddie'?
Listen to your own mantra and don't judge me in ignorance please.

A sign of how ridiculous this whole thing has become...
At the session I attended last night this very sentiment came up when i mentioned the madness on this thread to friends who are aware of your omnipresence on here. After a chap did Country Life acoustically (and well) someone piped up and said 'dare you post that in your report of the evening for fear of Lizzie Cornish!'to a smattering of chuckles.
Now that to me is not good if people know you outside of the boards for being reactionary, argumentative and generally quite intimidating on here.
Who knows what you hope to achieve though if anything through your rants and pontificating you have achieved a certain noteriety amongst even us folks in the 'real world' (to be found to the right and left of your computer screen and much worn keyboard)and frankly if you were so passionate about the music you'd be getting out there, getting involved, attending sessions, patronising folk clubs and basically being too busy to spout your endless views on here two, three, four, five times a day and more.

I appreciate throughly that you found something you loved in the music of SoH and that is great and I hope it has led you to more artists you have discovered and a wider appreciation of the folk scene, gawd knows us little folk/acoustic artists appreciate people stopping and listening instead of talking over us and pub crowds heckling for 'play something we know'.

What is blindingly obvious is no-one appreciates the hijacking of threads and the ensuing brouhaha that tediously follows.
I am not attacking you here I am trying to explain that snipey little comments like the one you wrote in regards to me and my music just fuel the fire, sour things further and are utterly unecessary.

Apologies for the long post everyone but I work damn hard on my music and when it is dismissed out of hand like that by someone who hasn't even heard it just to make a swipe at me it gets my back up.

right I'm off to play ukulele - it is impossible to be gloomy on a uke! :-P

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 10:15 AM

I'd rather hear it direct from Show of Hands if they think I'm unpleasant.

You did, on the last occasion when Phil Beer commented on this forum.

You seem to have forgotten what he said.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,ralphie
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 02:46 PM

Hey Flash..
"Fleeting interest?"
I was serious.
I would love to hear what you do.
But don't present it in a syrupy, fawning,sycophantic way. There's a good chap!
A simple way would be..
Hello Ralph. Thanks for the interest, here's what I do. Just go to www (etc) and have a listen/view..
In response I would do just that!
Job Done!
FYI Why not pop over to the OMNVOICE, search for Ralph Jordan, and you can hear what I do!
No comment needed!
Tara Fer Now Ralphie

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Guessed
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:01 PM

These threads really bring out the worst in people, don't they? Horrible.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,flashmeister
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:07 PM

ha ha ha fawning and syrupy I am not and a chapette to boot!
as this thread is already hijacked to the point of tedium

its Me for the self penned do-dahs and t'other for collaborative stuff - both very much works in constant progress and dismal recording quality too!
there ye go.
done dusted.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:13 PM

I tried the links. For some reason it has put mudcat at the begining of the linkes - Seems to do that every now and again. Copy and edit them and they may be OK next time. I tried to mend 'em but it di dthe same. Try later? Hope that helps.

D

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:25 PM

I'll tray again -

First one

Second one

D.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:26 PM

Tray = posh version of try...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:36 PM

You have to put http:// in front of a link otherwise Mudcat searches no further than its own server.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:43 PM

Ms Flash!
Apologies for gender re-orientation! But "Flashmeister" as a handle doesn't help!
Have bookmarked your stuff. will revisit later. Thanks!
E

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:46 PM

Ms Flash!

Had me fooled as well. But I only thought it. Welcome Ms Flashmeister.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 03:47 PM

"Lizzie you have never, ever seen me play nor heard any of my music, nor attended any of my sessions so you simply cannot make a snap judgement on my music or indeed me - I appear to have survived thus far without you writing about my music and shall go forth for some time to come blithely going about my business without suffering for your lack of writing about my music."

What I meant was, that after your rude comments I would *never* write about your music, in any way, no matter what it sounded like.



"Is it because Ralphie expressed a fleeting interest in me that I am now a 'baddie'?"

No, it's because you feel you have the right to say whatever you want about me, whilst I have no right of reply. I do. You were rude.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 04:10 PM

Lisa Route (or whatever your name is today)

Ms Flashmeister was far from being rude, merely accurate. Whenever I have heard SoH (to take an example you surely recognise) play live and acoustic - as opposed to bombastically overproduced - I find it refreshing, although I still prefer their earlier projects. The last time was the very song which is supposed to be the topic done on R4 Midweek with Mr Beer niftily swapping instruments mid-verse. Although Stu Hanna does a magnificently clear and sharp production job on the CD, that live set was the best I've ever heard.

You, on the other hand, have oftimes slagged off performers that you have never bothered to listen to because of some perceived slight you imagine was directed at you. Because it's always about you . . . You were unbelievably rude about one of the best ceilidh trios currently playing on the circuit for the sole reason that you have taken a dislike to the banjo player who spoke to you in similar vein to said Mr Beer (and many another fed up to the back teeth of your ridiculous, non-fact-based, ignorant posturing). That they played on the original Imagined Village line-up had clearly escaped your attention.

I really haven't got the will to continue listing the innumerable depressing examples there are of you talking utter bollocks. The packet of marshmallows I was tempted into buying in the sweetie shop this morning had more substance.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 04:19 PM

"You were unbelievably rude about one of the best ceilidh trios currently playing on the circuit for the sole reason that you have taken a dislike to the banjo player who spoke to you in similar vein to said Mr Beer (and many another fed up to the back teeth of your ridiculous, non-fact-based, ignorant posturing). That they played on the original Imagined Village line-up had clearly escaped your attention."

I was? I don't know who you're talking about. Pray tell....

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 04:30 PM

Ah, Colin Cotter of The Gloworms.

No, I wasn't rude to Colin, merely replied to him in the same way he spoke to me...but...Colin smiled at me not too long ago, in Sidmouth, whilst dancing with the Hammersmith Boysies Morris Team, as I recall..I was watching him, from the shop, opposite The Anchor.

You'll have to do better than that, Sweetums, in your spin-doctoring... ;0)

Colin's a good bloke, he just loathed Show of Hands..and he was the first person to ever talk to me on a messageboard...on the BBC, when he told me that Show of Hands were only liked by 'women of a certain age'...You told him off for being sexist and ageist, as I recall...and I sat there, puzzled, not knowing what was about to happen....

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 04:37 PM

"I appreciate throughly that you found something you loved in the music of SoH and that is great and I hope it has led you to more artists you have discovered and a wider appreciation of the folk scene, gawd knows us little folk/acoustic artists appreciate people stopping and listening instead of talking over us and pub crowds heckling for 'play something we know'."

I've written about more artists than you've had hot dinners, so please do not patronize me with your attitude above. Thanks.

"What is blindingly obvious is no-one appreciates the hijacking of threads and the ensuing brouhaha that tediously follows."

Yeah, right. Tell that to the ones who follow me around...and if you noticed I have repeatedly asked them to write about the music of Show of Hands, but strangely, they all refuse to do it, choosing instead to go on and on and on about me. I'm one of the few people who have actually written about the song in question in here....HELLOEEE????

"I am not attacking you here I am trying to explain that snipey little comments like the one you wrote in regards to me and my music just fuel the fire, sour things further and are utterly unecessary."

You said that you'd hate it if someone wrote about your music in such a way. Well, I told you I never would. That wasn't snipey, just factual.   And if you go back and READ what I put about Arrogance, Ignorance and Greed, you'll see that FAR from it being filled with mushiness, it's all political and about the shitty state of the Western world in general, with the way the honesty and integrity has collapsed...pertaining to..er...the...er...song!!

so back off from drivelling on about twaddle, and read what I've said..it might help.

And if any of you have trouble reading more than 10 words, then just don't read my posts...It's that easy, honest.

And now, BACK to Show of Hands, again..and again..and again...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 05:00 PM

It was but a week or so ago that MLC dissed the Gloworms for not making her self-styled category of "top stars". She is also doubtless unaware that one of Laurel Swift's other bands, Gadarene, is going to Austin, Texas, next month along with Jackie Oates, Jim Moray, Olivia Chaney, The Unthanks and Trembling Bells in an English music showcase entitled Looking For A New England. Not a peep from madlizzieseagull about that and why not? Because real, innovative English music ain't her bag. What she wants is "boysies and dumbed-down MOR crap".

Oh, and Colin Cotter is completely right about the type of audience SoH appeal to. Yes, it is sexist and ageist to describe it thus, but it is nevertheless true.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 05:08 PM

I've written about more artists than you've had hot dinners,

As for you writing about artists why not ask for a job as a reviewer for some of the folk magazines?

It gets you a record for nothing from some of them and gets your opinion of the artist out there often to a wider audience than you would get here. You can rave about them as much as you like and if you don't like them you can say so. People will come up to you and say thank you for that nice review.

So there you are Lizzie a really helpful suggestion from me. Look up a few folk magazines and ask the editors of you can write reviews of records for them. Trust me on this Lizzie most of them could use people who want to write about the music. So you are pushing at an open door.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 05:52 PM

"It was but a week or so ago that MLC dissed the Gloworms for not making her self-styled category of "top stars"."

Could you put my words on here please, Sweetums, as I'd be interested to see them, bearing in mind that I've never written any such thing.


Dave, FYI, I was asked if I'd like to contribute to an online magazine. I declined, mainly as I didn't want the person's site to suffer what Show of Hands have had to suffer, or any other artist that I like, and that is the ridiculing which you and your mates choose to put upon anyone whom I either talk about, or who is related to me in any way, even in an on-line magazine.

And if you recall, the fiasco AGAINST Show of Hands actually made it into a folk magazine, where the editor said how disgusted he was at the derogatory things that were being permitted to be said about them, and Martyn Joseph, on the BBC board. Ian Anderson and fRoots were also taken to task for being a part of that fiasco.

As you know about folk magazines, I'm sure you'd know about that article Dave.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 06:00 PM

so back off from drivelling on about twaddle, and read what I've said..it might help.

That's the problem. I have read it and it is twaddle to me as well as the majority of others. I know you do not follow the 'rules' of English but surely you must be aware that 99% of people on this forum do follow standard grammar and reasoning and cannot fully understand YOUR rules. Folkiedave is wrong in saying that you should approach some music magazines. Not just now anyway. You need to realise that people will only see twaddle as long as you keep saying things the way you do.

It's fine to pick your own rules. Just don't expect everyone else to agree to play by them. Remember your own statement - Not everyone learns or thinks in the same way. You are in a small minority, Lizzie, and while everyone is happy for you to be there yuou cannot force anyone to join you in the same way that they cannot force you. There is not one rule for Lizzie and one for the rest of the world. If you cannot understand how the rest of the populace think or even abide by a common language then why should we be any different to you? Just think about it please.

DeG

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 06:36 PM

Dave, FYI, I was asked if I'd like to contribute to an online magazine. I declined,

Butr Lizzie I remember you were associated with some on-line stuff. You and Sam wrote it up and it was all copyrighted at the bottom of each page Lizzie and Sam(or Sam and Lizzie).

Wasn't there a thread about it - whereby people pointed out you had filched pages wholesale which were already copyright to other people and you had made them copyright to yourself? Are you saying you didn't write it? And it was copyright to other people all the time?

Wow!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 06:48 PM

Nope, sorry to disappoint you, yet again, but I never wrote one word of those sites, or designed them. Sam did it all. I've told you that before, but you conveniently forget it, in order to try to make me look a prat.

I did the Myspace pages.

You remember Sam's site, of course, because you leacherously came over to me in PM and told me what a lovely photo of me you thought he'd used...asking if it was in a hotel...I stared at your words, slightly puzzled, told you it was the Railway Museum in York, where I went with my children once, (not with Sam) and rebuffed your advances.

Forget what someone said earlier in this thread, about me being miffed about SoH because I can assure them that 'hell hath no fury like a *man* scorned'...as can be seen from certain posters obsessive stalking of me around Mudcat, ever since that time.




And now, back to Show of Hands and their song.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 06:49 PM

This is getting on a par with 'Eastenders' isn't it? ;0)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 06:50 PM

drivelling on about twaddle

. . . is the sum total of what MLC does (c.f. the guaranteed plagiarised Albion Farts). And now she requests that I wade through acres of her bilge about the "gift" of learning disabilities and associated dangerous twaddle to identify where she slagged off a band to which she has never even listened. If she can't keep an archive of the tripe she's churned out already, how can she expect a publication to hire her to write professionally? (Whisper to Dave (eG): maybe (f)Dave was being just a teensy-weensy bit metallic?)

And for fuck's sake, can she stop referring to contributors as "dinkums" and "sweetums". Is this some sort of Lord Of The Rings affectation? Her and Tolkien alike just make themselves look yet more bonkers.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 06:53 PM

I never wrote one word of those sites

We know. They were cut-and-pastes of copyrighted material.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:02 PM

So where ARE all these words I've written about this band? Come on, Sweetums, you can't just make these allegations without proof? After all, you know how hot your pals are, about proof.

Dave knows where all my words live, he has them in different categories in his in-tray.. ;0) He'll be able to point you in their direction.

Where have I 'slagged off a band I've never listened to?'...and apparently, I did it only last week...even EASIER for you to find....

Unless...of course...you is telling porkies?

No! Surely not!!!

The English Traddies, telling Porkies????????

Who'd a thought it, eh?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:09 PM

"Oh, and Colin Cotter is completely right about the type of audience SoH appeal to. Yes, it is sexist and ageist to describe it thus, but it is nevertheless true."


Cripes! You'd better hide from Joanie then, for she's become their biggest fan.   

Meanwhile, back at the folk ranch, I've shed pounds and years because Those Gorgeous Oysters have come riding over the horizon.

The Oysterband live at The Union Chapel - Youtube

Brilliant, eh? That's such a good video. :0)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:18 PM

Hmmmm...

"The fact that I helped to create a site about Walter [Pardon] was completely overlooked"

But then...

"Nope, sorry to disappoint you, yet again, but I never wrote one word of those sites, or designed them. Sam did it all."


Make up your mind. Either you're admitting you were complicit in his plagiarism or it was nothing to do with you. You can't have it both ways.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:25 PM

Reading this latest Lizzie-and-the-folks-who-love-to-hate-her thread, I've come to the conclusion that you're ALL assholes. Do you really have nothing better to do than to pollute this forum with your bullshit?

Get a life, idiots.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:29 PM

As I said, I never wrote a word on there. There's a helluva lot of other work that goes into making sites you know....

You know, Sam's 'Albion Chronicles' was out there YEARS before I ever found them. I stumbled across them long before I ever came to know Sam, via the internet. That's what he does, lays down thousands of paths for people to wander down, if they choose to. Many of the things he has on his sites (and there are thousands of them) he's given credit to the writers, the photographers.....and at no time, as far as I'm aware, has he ever put his own name to the words of others.

Sam merely gathers together facts and photos into one place...and he doesn't just have sites on Folk Music, but on almost any subject you would care to imagine. They are merely one man's collection of memories, of things that are dear to him, that mean something special.

But again, because he came to be associated with me, so you lot decided to pour the scorn down upon him and the sites he makes, never wishing to see that he's probably brought many people into folk music in his time.

Leave him alone and go pick on your own sort.

Sam always had a saying which was 'Those who can, do..and those who can't, complain'.   It never bothered him what you lot said, because he wasn't interested in anything you came out with. He did and still does what interests him and I've read many a time how people have said they like his sites.

That's fine by me.

I like the idea of people being brought into music, traditions, history, musicians, poetry....Obviously, you guys don't because you want this world to be 'yours'...It ain't. Sam does his bit to help spread the word, nothing more.

You gotta problem with him, then email him via one of his many sites, that's what his email contact is for.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:30 PM

You remember Sam's site, of course, because you leacherously came over to me in PM and told me what a lovely photo of me you thought he'd used...asking if it was in a hotel...I stared at your words, slightly puzzled, told you it was the Railway Museum in York, where I went with my children once, (not with Sam) and rebuffed your advances.

It was a wind-up Lizzie. It was when I realised you were too stupid to notice that I realised what a prat you were.

Back to Sam. This is what you wrote.

My path is with Sam from now on. Our journey is just beginning.

For many of you, your journey, it seems to me, has stopped. It stopped when you let the coldness of hatred, anger and bitterness come into your hearts, it stopped when you sought to destroy rather than to encourage...it stopped...inside so many of you.

I hope you find your way out of it all....to a very different world.

So yes Dave...this time I WILL go. I have no wish to be amongst people such as yourself, Joan Crump, Diane Easby or Ralph Jordan on this site, or any other 'folk' site anymore. I very much hope that you enjoy YOUR music, that you enjoy YOUR club and that you enjoy YOUR world.

And frankly Lizzie you have been posting bits of it ever since.

I am really glad you found Sam. And that you fell in love with each other through folk music. Many others have done the same.

Tell us the end of the tale. Did you ride off into the sunset and live happily ever after? Canada was it? Birmingham?

Regular readers will notice that once again Lizzie permanently left Mudcat for ever.

It was about three years ago.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:36 PM

"But Lizzie I remember you were associated with some on-line stuff. You and Sam wrote it up and it was all copyrighted at the bottom of each page Lizzie and Sam(or Sam and Lizzie).

Wasn't there a thread about it - whereby people pointed out you had filched pages wholesale which were already copyright to other people and you had made them copyright to yourself? Are you saying you didn't write it? And it was copyright to other people all the time? "

New readers start here.......

Ah yes I remember The Albion Chronicles

And 'every time you click on a new link, you find loads more..' or was that every hit generates advertising revenue? and wasn't that something like 57 separate pages?.

I also seem to remember Lizzie saying
"I'd think that possibly, WHOEVER RUNS THE SITE, holds Evelyn Glennie in very high regard "
when "GUEST,banned from the BBC" also posted a link to the saccharine "Sam and Lizzie site" ( one reaction to which I seem to remember was "anyone got a bucket?) - such a touching display of ignorance about the owner of the site Lizzie when you were so publicly and romantically linked with him!

I gave a link at the time to a direct copy of a Guardian article about Nick Drake on the site, others pointed out that "All the stuff linked on this disjointed and badly laid out site are available elsewhere in a more intelligible format:" and questioned if .
"permission has been obtained from the owners of the linked websites?" commenting that it all seemed to be "shameless self indulgence and self promotion".

- no change there then!

Some interesting 'historical' reading when guests like 'Pest Of A Guest" "Banned from the BBC" etc were …….often……..

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:39 PM

One of the crosses that SoH has to bear is that section of their fanbase that sits primly in coaches as per a Women's Institute outing and files into the Albert Hall. But as I never fail to give them credit for, they have had rather more worthy projects and doubtless will do again.

As for the Oysterband, I think most contributors were at the Union Chapel or other gigs of last year's tour, so the posting of a vid (and still less referring to them in such derogatory terms) is really quite unnecessary. Shame you didn't see them (or even have heard of them) when they were Fiddlers' Dram. Now that might have coincided more with your taste.

Banging on about having seen the Smiffs once does not equate at all with hearing the Gloworms' music (especially as it was probably Ian Dedic playing). As for exactly when you dissed their work in much the same fashion as you did that of Ms Flash without a listen, see my post of 0650 relating to my disinclination to trawl through the cesspit of scribblings on any and every subject about which you know sod all.

Those who can, do, and those who don't, complain

The quotation is actually "teach", not "complain". But we all know what you think of the teaching profession, don't we?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:39 PM

Nice try, Dave. But your obsessiveness only started after you'd been rebuffed.

Blimey, you've kept words that I wrote near on 4 years back. Wow!
(bloody worried smiley)

For those who have never seen Sam's sites....here's a link to just one of them:

The Albion Chronicles

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 07:59 PM

I used to think the English were inordinately polite, but some of these Folk Singing arguments have changed my opinion. Apparently there's nothing that sets the saxon blood to boiling like a good whoring-out-the-trad argument. Twice as stimulating as a cricket match, I say.