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Worst singing accent.

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GUEST,Roger 04 Jul 18 - 11:40 AM
The Sandman 04 Jul 18 - 12:25 PM
The Sandman 04 Jul 18 - 12:41 PM
Jim Carroll 04 Jul 18 - 12:56 PM
The Sandman 04 Jul 18 - 01:18 PM
GUEST,Roger 04 Jul 18 - 02:44 PM
GUEST,Jam Today 05 Jul 18 - 09:11 AM
keberoxu 05 Jul 18 - 09:23 AM
Jack Campin 05 Jul 18 - 09:59 AM
GUEST,Observer 05 Jul 18 - 10:16 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Jul 18 - 11:35 AM
The Sandman 05 Jul 18 - 01:06 PM
The Sandman 05 Jul 18 - 01:16 PM
GUEST,02lame 05 Jul 18 - 02:25 PM
The Sandman 05 Jul 18 - 02:36 PM
The Sandman 05 Jul 18 - 02:37 PM
Jim Carroll 05 Jul 18 - 03:13 PM
GUEST,keberoxu 05 Jul 18 - 03:22 PM
The Sandman 05 Jul 18 - 03:25 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 05 Jul 18 - 04:06 PM
GUEST,Observer 05 Jul 18 - 04:29 PM
Joe Offer 05 Jul 18 - 05:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 11:40 AM

Classic FM are running an advert for Maserati Cars at the moment.
The Italian accent of the female voice 'artist' is hilarious.
Roger


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 12:25 PM

Jim,
i have heard the whole lot, Alex was clearly not pissd out of his mind., the clip somewhere in the middle has ewan suggesting that they have a break for a beer[ imo a big mistake]. you know perfectly well there was at least a scuffle which involved Davenport, stop trying to twist the truth and muddy the waters.my impression on listening to that tape was that Alex Campbells remarks about him not being able to sing woody guthrie songs because he was scottish, were spot on ,he ceratinly did not sound pissed out of his mind,bob davenport was fairly awkward and hard to manage throughout the meeting , are you denying this jim? are you calling me a liar?


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 12:41 PM

a so jim why not share the meeting so that others can make up their minds ,they will undoubtedly come to the conclusion that davenport was obstreperous during the meeting, they will also hear Ewan and his remarks and bert Waffling, and reamnarkable it is that over 50 years ago theywere worried about the UK FOLK SCENE, here we are in2018 and the uk folk scene is still with us


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 12:56 PM

Sorry Dick - I have no intention of entering into a slanging 'you are a liar' match with you
I never gave you a recording, maybe someone else did
If you think Alex was sober (a first surely) you have listened to something else
I don't hand it around because it is not my recording
If you think Bert was "waffling" you don't deserve a copy anyway
Enough - lets not inflict our disagreements on others
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 01:18 PM

Jim, i have heard the recording, i never said you gave me the recording. Bert was waffling and so were others, Bob was obstreperous[ do you agree or disagree], answer the question please. Alex talked more sense than anybody else imo
share the tapes so others can make up their own minds and stop hiding the truth, and stop trying to rewrite history.some people were concerned about the uk folk revival over 50 years ago, why, was it because they wanted to control it?, enough of this secrecy, share the recording, let others and make up their own minds.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 02:44 PM

There seem to be a lot of tossers arguing about the past here.
The discussion is about accents and not EGOS.
Roger


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Jam Today
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 09:11 AM

One can only learn from the past. The Sandman is right why cant Jim let us all hear the tape.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 09:23 AM

And then, there's Dean Martin.
A caveat: Dean Martin's singing accent is far from the worst.
He knew what he was about. He chose an admirable artist on whom
to model his own singing sound, and what you hear
when Dean Martin sings is the result of consistent practice and hard work
at sounding natural and at ease with an accent different than your own.
Again, Martin chose well. He modelled his sound on Donald Mills,
the Mills Brothers ensemble member who most often
takes the solo parts in the group's harmonizing.
And Donald Mills had a strong, wholesome, stabilizing quality
to his vocal technique and to his interpretations,
not a singing personality of attention-grabbing extremes.

You have to have an ear for subtle differences in quality
to hear the distinction
between Donald Mills,
whom I believe sang the way he spoke and spoke the way he sang,
and Dean Martin,
who sang with one accent and spoke with another.

Funny business, popular USA music.
The Mills Brothers existed long before the era of
I'm Black and I'm Proud, and they were not confrontational men.
There were parts of the United States, on performance tours,
which they visited just the once, and to which they never returned,
because, as one of them said in an interview,
"we didn't like unpleasantness."
And yet it's my opinion -- I might be mistaken here --
that Mills Brothers recordings were popular over the whole of the USA,
not just where they felt at ease performing and staying in hotels.
They didn't cause a sensation, but they were deeply loved.
And they were enjoyed even by listeners who had no clue.

Meanwhile, Dean Martin took his career to places that
few popular singers can dream of;
he didn't win a Oscar for film acting as Frank Sinatra did,
but he was in films for all that (Westerns),
and he had his own prime-time variety television show.

Yes, he is up there with Doris Day,
and ye gods! What a shock it was for me to discover
the recordings that broke her into the music business.
I grew accustomed, in my growing-up years,
to Doris Day's recordings after she had Arrived, career-wise.
She went back and re-recorded songs like "A Sentimental Journey"
and they sounded totally white-bread-and-blue-eyes, as it were.
But it was when I was considerably older
that I heard her earlier recording of "Sentimental Journey,"
a performance that is the result of
what must have been hours upon hours of listening to
what were then called "race records,"
imitating and practicing both an accent and a sense of syncopated rhythm
that could be heard nowhere else in music at the time.
The young Doris Day, on those early recordings,
sounds altogether like something that she never really was.
She sounds as though she could have been one of
the singers recruited by Duke Ellington for his orchestra.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 09:59 AM

"I DO NOT KNOW WHAT A HONKIE IS?
Really - you have lived a sheltered life !!
It's a black term for a white man


I used to work with a guy from Hong Kong who had ended up having three second languages - English, Mandarin and Cantonese - but didn't quite manage native speaker ability in any of them. I remarked that there was no elegant words for people from Hong Kong and suggested "honkies". When he asked what that meant I said "Black American English for white people", and if you've heard me speak you will realize that the end of the sentence would have gone through his ear a few milliseconds before the beginning had emerged from the language processing centre in the brain - he didn't have a prayer of getting it first time.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 10:16 AM

Ewan, Bert and others were concerned with the way the scene was beginning to dissipate so they called a meeting in Central London to see if anything could be done - Bert introduced it, MacColl was in the chair, and they along with Bob Davenport and Alex Campbell gave short summing ups of what they thought was happening and where things should go, then it was thrown open to everybody; it ended up in a shouting match, basically because of the behaviour of one person.

An observation - I couldn't care less about hearing the tape, why should I, or anybody else? Instead ask yourselves, "Who, apart from themselves, appointed MacColl (Or Miller, whatever you want to call him); Armstrong; Davenport and Campbell to decide what should be done about an art form that none of them actually owned or had any proprietary claim to? Looks like total unbounded arrogance.

My opinion of MacColl is no secret, everything about the man was fake.

Ewan set up The Critics Group to examine the techniques and relevance of folk song - Aye in his own image with everything coloured by his own politics.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 11:35 AM

"why cant Jim let us all hear the tape."
I've ytold you why - it's not mine
Perhaps Dick will let you hear his - but I doubt it somehow
C'mon Dick - how about it?

"everything about the man was fake. "
As fake as anonymous trolls who post creepy abuse, do you mean?
"My opinion of MacColl is no secret"
Is that why you don't tell us who you are or what your achievements are?
Ill stick what what and who I know, if it's all the same with you

What a strange bunch!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 01:06 PM

Jim , I listened to it some time ago on the net , i did not have it in my possession, so i cannot do that, you do have it so you can do so.
I agree with Observer,no one had that right to set themselves up to control the uk revival, I do not agree with observers politics, i agree with MacColls, but , observer has hit the nail on the head, Alex wanted toi further the entertainment side or folk comedians llod and maCcOLL wanted to furgher left wing influence
Davenport [alhough to the left in poltics] was fed up with MacColls controlling attitude.
,I may be wrong but that is my honest opinion.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 01:16 PM

here is a quote by shirley collins on MacColl.
Shirley Collins: singer instrumental in the English folk revival of the 1960s and 70s

Ewan had quite a pernicious influence on folk music, I think. People who went to the Critics Group [a study group for singers held at MacColl’s home] ended up being moulded by him, sounding the same. Folk music should be about reflecting music from the regions, the different voices, the roots of it. You couldn’t differentiate anything with his approach.

I first met him when I was 20 and my antenna went up straightaway. I genuinely don’t want to be unpleasant, but he was unpleasant to me, quite sexist, and pretentious and pompous – words that should never be applied to a folk singer. He said to me that I shouldn’t wear nail varnish. What a wretched thing to say to a young woman with an interest; what a way of putting someone down.

He was self-invented; there seemed nothing truthful about him, and that’s always concerned me greatly. He was an actor, really, even as a singer. The way he’d turn his chair, sit astride it, put his hand to his ear... my heart would sink. I know it’s not fair as he’s not here to defend himself, but I’ve had my opinion since I first met him, and I’ve not seen any reason to change it.

He was a talented man, yes – you can’t get away from that – who made some fine pieces of work, but he could never reach me like a traditional singer could, someone like George Maynard or Harry Cox. His influence now? Things have opened up. Nobody has to listen to what other people are saying. People are going their own way. That’s the way it should be."
for the benefit of jack campin. he quote was taken from the following context from the Guardian.HERE.
Ewan MacColl: the godfather of folk who was adored – and feared

Best known today as the man who wrote Dirty Old Town, the singer and songwriter was a leftwing firebrand who instigated the 60s folk revival. On the centenary of his birth, Neil Spencer recalls an inspirational yet controversial figure while family, friends and fans pay tribute.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,02lame
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 02:25 PM

The master voice (so to speak)
HONKY
Huge changes


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 02:36 PM

and by contrast appalachian accent,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbHccbzDloI
completely different from new york accent, so i peggy and tom paley did not have appalachian accents


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 02:37 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03iwAY4KlIU


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 03:13 PM

You whinge about people when people criticise performers you like yet you bust a gut critiscing a singer who has been dead for thirty years and can't defend himself and who did more for folk song in Britain than any other singer
You really ought to be ashamed of yourself Dick
It really is no wonder people find you a pest
Finished
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 03:22 PM

finished? I only wish you would make up your minds:
finish here already,
or take it elsewhere. I mean, enough.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 03:25 PM

JIM, I give my honest opinion always ,if you do not like it tough ,start behaving like an adult not a spoiled child.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 04:06 PM

Hang on a minute of course Dick is going to defend singers he likes, weather they are dead or alive. How is that wrong?
McColl was as described above (very eloquently). If some of the traditional singers I have known over the years were to have witnessed him singing in a non existent Scots accent sitting back to front on his chair with his hand clamped over one ear, they would have thought he had serious mental problems. I have worked with and been taught by Traditional singers from the Gypsy community from the Southern counties and from Lancashire, and I never met one singer who did not know how to enjoy themselves when singing. It's supposed to be a pleasure, not a political platform, not a search for fame, not a springboard to 'better' things in show business, not about moneymaking and not about winning Grammy awards, not about getting MBE's, but making people laugh, cry, and empathise but above all sing Traditional songs in Traditional style, weather on a gig or in a sing around. Yes! Traditional songs in Traditional style, not a very popular mission statement nowadays, but it seems to be working for me. (and dare I say Dick)


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 04:29 PM

Jim Carroll, Date: 05 Jul 18 - 11:35 AM

YOU may regard MacColl as some sort of God to be worshipped and adored - that is YOUR opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it.

Just as I am ENTITLED to my own opinion of a man about whom, on examination, everything is false.

Stick to the content of posts, I am not interested in your opinions and remarks about those actually posting.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 05:28 PM

I hate to have to start doing this, but I guess I must. This thread has become unpleasant because of all the personal insults. Thread closed.
-Joe Offer-


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Mudcat time: 18 October 2:42 AM EDT

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