BS: Slanted News and Statistics

Subject: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 01:23 PM

Another take on it. "FAIR" comes up with a far different result in numbers. I can see why there is such a wide disparity of opinion on the subject in this country. Somewhere there is truth- but I doubt we'll find it any time soon.

From Fox News:

"The cost of harboring illegal immigrants in the United States is a staggering $113 billion a year -- an average of $1,117 for every "native-headed" household in America -- according to a study conducted by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR).

"The study, a copy of which was provided to FoxNews.com, "is the first and most detailed look at the costs of illegal immigration ever done," says Bob Dane, director of communications at FAIR, a conservative organization that seeks to end almost all immigration to the U.S. 

"FAIR's opponents in the bitter immigration debate describe the organization as "extremist," though it is regularly called upon to testify before Congress.

"Groups that support immigration reform immediately attacked FAIR's report and pointed out that it is the polar opposite of the Perryman Report, a 2008 study that found illegal immigration was actually a boon to the American economy. It estimated that illegal immigrants add $245 billion in Gross Domestic Product to the economy and account for 2.8 million jobs.

No Wonder We are Confused

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 01:43 PM

Fox right wing yellow journalism, strikes again. Uses headline tactics to stun and sway people. Reports questionable statistics from a group already weighing in against immigration as well. They are really going to keep it factual, aren't they?

The problem is that the people who want to believe that illegal immigration is a problem will eat this headline and report up with a spoon. There will be no convincing them otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: pdq
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 02:09 PM

Just for the record, the country of Mexico...

       bans illegal aliens from working at any job

       requires any foreign national to produce papers "on demand"

       deports anyone who is there illegally and commits any form of crime

       demands that legal immigrants prove they can support themselves from day one

And please, why don't some of you separate "legal" and "illegal immigrants" in this type of discussion. There is not a movement to stop legal immigration that I have heard of. In fact, we need medical doctors we can get from places like India. We don't need illegal alien drug dealers from Mexico at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 02:24 PM

Both reports, pdq, refer to *illegal* immigrants, as you can plainly read.

As for what Mexico does, what has that to do with *our* policies?

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 02:30 PM

Figures can't lie, but liars sure can figure...

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 01:16 AM

Ebbie, re-read your opening post. FAIR is described as 'a conservative organization that seeks to end almost all immigration to the U.S.' as you and pdq can both plainly read, but only one of you comprehend. This is an inaccurate description of FAIR and its aims which are to mitigate and end "illegal" immigration to the United States.

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 01:55 AM

Here is a very long but very informative interview by Rachel Maddow with Dan Stein, President of FAIR who published this report.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 01:49 PM

If it weren't for illegal immigration, North, Central, and South America wouldn't have any people at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 02:02 PM

I love you Rap! Brilliant.....

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 02:10 PM

Rapaire, I often agree with your positions, but this time you've demonstrably gone overboard with your If it weren't for illegal immigration, North, Central, and South America wouldn't have any people at all.

The earliest humans to come to the Western Hemisphere, whether by the Bering ice bridge or by boat or raft over the Atlantic or Pacific oceans, were not "illegal immigrants", because there was no preexisting civil society to set up any immigration laws for them to violate.   And for a VERY long time after that their descendants, whom we call Indians or First Nations or Amerinds or whatever, though I suppose they could have, established no such immigration laws--nor do I suppose they had any such concepts until comparatively recent historical times.

It's an interesting question, when and under what conditions "illegal immigration" to the Americas became a viable concept, but in any case your statement is WAY too broad to have any meaning. Overclaiming damages your credibility.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 02:36 PM

Well, as far as the USA is concerned, there was no such thing as illegal immigration until late in the 19th century, when the immigrants who'd got there pulled up the gangplank to stop the Yellow Peril, then to prevent their less fortunate European cousins (especially the Italian and Jewish ones) from joining them. (The same could be said of the UK, with immigration control being largely a result of the Powellite panic of the later 60s.)

So all the immigration was illegal (on the principle that whatever isn't against the law is legal), including the Berengarians and all the Atlanteans/ Utopians/ Vikings/ Welshmen/ Mormons/ Ufonians who also inhabited the place until they mysteriously evaporated just before Europeans could set eyes on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 02:49 PM

Paul Burke, I THINK what you meant to say was that "all the immigration was legal (on the principle) . . ."   

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 02:52 PM

I did.

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 03:02 PM

94.37% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 03:12 PM

Hogwash, dick... It's only 93.47%... Me thinks yer lexdexia is showin'...

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: GUEST,Ebbie, at the Library
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 03:13 PM

JohnonSunsetCoast, in FAIRness to me, I referred only to what I posted. What else was written about the site wasn't by me. (This is just about the first time I have seen you be snarky.)

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: Gurney
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 03:22 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, -please,- but didn't some of the earliest European maritime attempts at immigration into America mysteriously disappear?
Surely reason to assume that earlier pedestrian immigrants/settlers objected to these attempts?

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 03:30 PM

The problem with immigration is that no one in Congress really wants to take it on... The Repubs, as per usual, don't wnat to take on anything because it would mean they would have to stand *for something* and they find it alot more fun to just lob cowchips at Obam and the Dems on any issue that comes into their little minds... As for the Dems??? Think health care reform wore them slam out...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 04:13 PM

U. S. Border Patrol figures are approx. 11-15 million. The non-partisan Pew Hispanic Center estimates 11.5-12 million. Estimates by the US Census pot the figure at 7 million in 2003, figures growing at 500,000/year, dropping with the recession in 2009, but this works out at about 11 million. That's about 3.5% of the population.

The Fox figures do not take into account the number employed who are paying taxes on income but get no benefits;estimates of paid taxes is in the billions.

Under the US Constitution, children of illegal immigrants born in the US are automatically citizens. They cannot be deported. Their parents may be deported, but that leaves the children as expensive wards of the government, as well as creating mental health problems.

Unless Oriental or Black, anyone arriving on the American shore who was in good health was admitted as legal, until about 1920, I believe. That's how the country grew and prospered- a generation of cheap labor but the second generation rising in income and productivity as education and training increased.

Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 02:51 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Slanted News and Statistics
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 06:54 AM

Who can blame Mexico for their strict immigration policy? In the early 1800's they invited some Americans to come and live there and what did they do? They rose up and fought Mexico! We all know how that ended, Mexico lost half of its territory.