BS: electric vehicle charging

Subject: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 05:23 AM

The owner of this electric vehicle Chevy Bolt did what no electric vehicle manufacturer has done so far.
Something completely logical. I've always wondered why these vehicles haven't been designed to use the energy that wheel rotation produces to charge the batteries of the vehicle.
This man made it at home. What you see in the frame, is a generator that produces current that charges batteries..
You no longer need to stop to charge batteries at charging stations or charge them at night at home.
While the vehicle runs, it charges the batteries.
https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/151825884_10225913347838989_3512771296395436223_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=m3p5oxpxfrwAX-4iomF&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=c1654f3fb61610fc9fba5f61683800c9&oe=607567E5

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 05:28 AM

sorry unable to copy photo , but someone replied saying that the alternator would not last long being exposed to the elements

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 05:30 AM

Perpetual motion machine?

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 05:57 AM

Quite simply, you cannot get more energy out than you put in. The energy generated by the rotation cannot exceed the energy used to turn the wheels so, laudable as the attempt is, if cannot provide enough power to recharge the batteries on its own.

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 06:16 AM

...And the system would lose energy via heat, sound, friction...

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 06:21 AM

It's just a photo with no caption or anything...

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 07:20 AM

it is interesting . but i suppose having electricity provided by solar panels if not using the vehicle for most of the day and charging upon a 13 amp plug and extension is less problematic.
the above[ solar and 13 amp] might be the answer for electric bikes

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 07:53 AM

Charging a car via an ordinary plug socket is far from ideal. It can take all day for starters. Trailing flexes and stuff. Far better to have a wall box charger fitted to a convenient outside wall. Neater and much quicker. I'm still on dirty diesel until my car bites the dust. When I bought the bloody thing in 2011 diesel was the best thing since sliced bread, now it's the spawn of the devil. Helluva good car though...

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 07:57 AM

If you drive the Bolt the brakes will automatically help charge the battery with a wierd feeling of too much or unusual braking. It takes some getting use to.

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 07:57 AM

Mine's diesel too. Next one will probably be petrol/electric hybrid but I suspect this one (2016 Ford C-Max 1.5) will see me out!

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 07:59 AM

I suspect that the device would be illegal in the UK as it has an exposed belt that could trap clothing etc.

Don't know for certain but I think such are illegal

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 08:20 AM

Mine's a Focus TDCi 1600 job. 130,000 on the clock (all put there by me). Best motor I've ever had. One new cam belt, original exhaust and shocks, dpf still going strong, 50-odd to the gallon...It knows its way to Radcliffe too!

Mrs Steve has a Fiesta ST Line which we both lurve. We could get an electric when mine bites the dust and use it for shorter trips, with the Fiesta for longer jags. Decisions, decisions...

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 09:19 AM

We may not be so bad after all, Steve

‘scrap your hybrid car for a diesel’

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 03:40 PM

When talking mileage, efficiency or greenness you have to establish what that in fact means, and then be able to compare the automobiles by a similar set of standards.

That is way easier to state than to do.

Diesels are the most efficient of the internal combustion engines in common use. That means you can get more work out of a smaller or equivalent sized displacement for longer and using less fuel, and the fuel requires less refining.

Mandates in U.S. law have also resulted in a large reduction in emissions of diesel generators. Like say more than 90%. Requires a small tank of urea that feeds post combustion gases but will work very well when it works.

Diesels still put out soot that goes into lungs permanently.

Many electric and hybrid vehicles have been recovering electric energy through braking for years. I don't know what the efficiency of that recovery is, but it is FAR less than 100%. It may be better than grinding up brake pads and heating the disks. It for sure calls for more equipment which costs more to make and weighs more in the vehicle and needs to be maintained.

A full scale energy audit should encompass special mining of rare metals, such as the nickel that goes into some auto batteries, the recycling cost and probabilities of plastic and metals revoery from junking the entire automobile (BMW was talking about doing this in the 80s), and the lifetime energy expense.

The U.S. government was issuing guidelines on electrical equipment lifetime cost in the energy sector over fifty years ago.

These are not new concepts but they are also not universally applied concepts. Hence marketing is still way more dominant in decision making than plain boring old engineering economics.

For those interested in attacking the capitalist system, these concepts of engineering economics came out of that system. Going the path of government control, sometimes known as 'socialism' may or may not result in these concepts being applied because human interest is always involved, and having a government imposting rules and regs enables much more shade than it does light.

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 05:57 PM

Damned electric cars, e scooters and electric bikes, curse of the roads.

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: ripov
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 08:27 PM

No need for a seperate alternator. the elecric motor can be configured as a generator. of course as hs been pointed out you can only get back out what you have put in, so if you could extract all the eergy stored in a vehicles movement you could only bring it to a standstill. Asimilar system called"Regenerative Braking"is used on electric railway(in Europe ).which is viable when traffic is dense. but not on national routes where vehicles are well seperated

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Mar 21 - 03:47 AM

There have been questions on Tesla Youtube comments like "can you charge the battery by towing it?"

The thing that amazed me was you can generate power from an induction motor. Apparently you have to have the input frequency to it higher than a frequency that would drive it. A complicated algorithm for the software IMO. A moving target in a vehicle.
I did know you can create braking torque with DC injection. Early Teslas and those with 3 motors have at least one induction (squirrel cage) motor.

But even Prius, in the NmH battery days, used regenerative braking because they had problems with the hand-over from regen+brakes to all brakes. Something I saw when I was in charge of the servicing of the trolly buses in Wellington NZ. Hysteresis, the drop-out to brakes was lower that the cut-in to regen, and releasing the brakes then re-applying caused severe consternation for the driver, in an emergency.

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Mar 21 - 10:53 AM

A bit OT but a brother has recently been playing with rewiring a washing machine smart motor to make a DC generator. There are quite a few videos on Youtube with people doing this sort of thing, eg. here.

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle chargin
From: Charmion
Date: 16 Mar 21 - 01:22 PM

I loved my VW diesels, of which I owned four over 35 years. I could drive from Ottawa to Halifax on a single tank of fuel and have enough left over to bop around town for a week. They completely spoiled me for petrol-fired cars, let alone electrics, which have barely the range to get me to Toronto and back to Stratford on a single charge.

I had to give up my last diesel Golf because its nasty cheating engine was banned in Canada and I’m driving the 2021 petrol version now. So far, it’s my last car, and likely to remain so unless something truly amazing happens to batteries. Since the last great break-through in automotive technology turned out to be such a bust — I’m talking about « clean diesel » — expect me to be a very late adopter of whatever comes next.

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Mar 21 - 01:41 PM

So many ways of turning wire between magnets - waves, tides, wind...and the turning wheels of cars.

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Mar 21 - 01:43 PM

...reinventing the wheel!

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Mar 21 - 10:15 PM

Getting back to the efficiency of diesels. Diesels have traditionally been heavier per horsepower because to achieve their thermal efficiency they have a higher compression ratio and are typically built to be rugged and heavier than the same horsepower in petrol (gasoline) engines. There have been diesel engines in airplanes but they were built differently and from a modern point of view, they are inherently polluters.

And then there was the diesel beetle.

A hiking partner back in the 80s used to tell how he had purchased a Volkswagen diesel beetle. Got about 50 miles per gallon which was better than any motorcycle I ever had. When still new, the head gasket blew and the dealer had to change everything out above the gasket. Next time it blew, they had to change everything on the other side of the gasket!

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Charmion
Date: 18 Mar 21 - 09:01 AM

Yes, a diesel lemon is a very expensive vehicle indeed. My first diesel car was a 1982 VW Rabbit with a dicky thermostat that would overheat at the slightest provocation, and that was not its only problem. I think I must have thrown some $1,500 through a tiny, wee gap in the windscreen gasket that routinely bathed the fuse-box in rainwater.

Also, in those days, Canadian diesel drivers had to add a little petrol to their fuel in winter to thin it out enough to fire on ignition. That was always a fun thing to explain to a pump jockey. Adjusting the choke and coddling the glow-plugs are aspects of diesel operations that I don’t miss one bit.

Early VW diesels could not function in Canada without a block heater and a battery blanket, and boosting the battery was a thing one just expected to have to do in winter. I can still start a car with a dead battery as efficiently as a CAA tow operator.

Subject: RE: BS: electric vehicle charging
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Mar 21 - 12:24 PM

I never passed my test in a car and stopped driving altogether because of alcohol problems but I did drive a good few 1000 miles including say Cromer to Llandudno, all legally on L plates, often sharing driving with mum. My favourite car was the Citroen ZX 1.9 diesel (of which she had 2, the first got shunted on the way to a NCFC game and I feel we got ripped off with the second*). It was comfortable, economical and practical for us back when we had a dog and also were going to DIY shops. I suppose a pretty good all round workhorse.

*The second only lasted a year. The brother who, before becoming a gardener, had been a mechanic at a Citroen main dealership and still did the odd servicing job insisted we made sure the cam belt was new. The garage we bought it from assured us that they had fitted a new one before putting the car up for sale yet it was a cam belt failure and the ensuing damage that caused the car’s demise.