Subject: DTStudy: Oxford Tragedy From: Chris Amos Date: 07 Jun 02 - 01:26 PM This is an edited DTStudy thread, and all messages posted here are subject to editing and deletion. This thread is intended to serve as a forum for corrections and annotations for the Digital Tradition song named in the title of this thread. Search for other DTStudy threadsI set about research with a singer's eye rather than scholars, looking for songs to sing. I am not so interested in finding the earliest version of a particular song, often they are a disappointment if you do, most song seem to be improved by being subjected to the folk process. There is a group of songs, collected from all over the English-speaking world, which I imagine must have come from a single source. Story always goes like this; boy meets girl, boy and girl go for a walk, boy murders girl with a fence post/stick/piece of hedge, boy throws girl's body in river/pond, boy returns home at midnight and is let in by mother/father/master/miller who has a light, boy is questioned as to where all the blood has come from and in most instances I have come across always answers with the exact phrase "Bleeding at my Nose". It's strange, I can remember the first time I heard this song, on a Peter Bellamy solo album and it was that line about bleeding at my nose that remained in my memory. I have come across versions from all parts of the UK and the Appellation all containing the same line. I have included one example from the DT, any ideas?
OXFORD TRAGEDY Once there was a little tailor boy About sixteen years of age; My father hired me to a miller That I might learn the trade. I fell in love with a Knoxville girl, Her name was Flora Dean. Her rosy cheeks, her curly hair, I really did admire. Her father he persuaded me To take Flora for a wife; The devil he persuaded me To take Flora's life. Up stepped her mother so bold and gay, So boldly she did stand; Johnny dear, go marry her And take her off my hands. I went unto her father's house About nine o'clock at night, A-asking her to take a walk To do some prively talk. We had not got so very far Till looking around and around, He stooping down picked up a stick And knocks little Flora down. She fell upon her bended knees, For mercy she did cry: O Johnny dear, don't murder me, For I'm not fit to die. I took her by her lily-white hands A-slung her around and around ; I drug her off to the river-side, And plunged her in to drown. I returned back to my miller's house About nine o'clock at night, But little did my miller know What I had been about. The miller turned around and about, Said:" Johnny, what blooded your clothes?" Me being so apt to take a hint: By bleeding at the nose. About nine or ten days after that, Little Flora she was found A-floating down by her father's house Who lived in Knoxville town. From English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians, Sharp Collected from Mary Wilson and Mrs. Townley, Kentucky, 1917 DT #311 Laws P35 @murder filename[ OXFRDTRG Tune file : OXFRDTRG CLICK TO PLAY RG
PLEASE NOTE: Because of the volunteer nature of The Digital Tradition, it is difficult to ensure proper attribution and copyright information for every song included. Please assume that any song which lists a composer is copyrighted ©. You MUST aquire proper license before using these songs for ANY commercial purpose. If you have any additional information or corrections to the credit or copyright information included, please e-mail those additions or corrections to us (along with the song title as indexed) so that we can update the database as soon as possible. Thank You. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 07 Jun 02 - 02:05 PM If you look around in the Forum you'll find a lot of related material; I'm pretty sure I've provided an extensive list of links to everything here, and a good bit elsewhere. The original has been pointed to a number of times, notably by Bruce Olson, and the place and date of the original crime specified (more details at his website). Time for you to do a little research! |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE KNOXVILLE GIRL From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Jun 02 - 02:40 PM Well, Chris, I was going to suggest that this shouldn't be a DTStudy because the Study threads are based on a review of one song at a time. You might have something, however, so let's let this one go as a thread studying all the bloody nose songs. If it doesn't work, we'll just reclassify it. -Joe Offer-
THE KNOXVILLE GIRL
PLEASE NOTE: Because of the volunteer nature of The Digital Tradition, it is difficult to ensure proper attribution and copyright information for every song included. Please assume that any song which lists a composer is copyrighted ©. You MUST aquire proper license before using these songs for ANY commercial purpose. If you have any additional information or corrections to the credit or copyright information included, please e-mail those additions or corrections to us (along with the song title as indexed) so that we can update the database as soon as possible. Thank You. |
Subject: DTStudy: Wexford Girl From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Jun 02 - 03:01 PM THE WEXFORD GIRL It was in the town of Waterford Where I was bred and born It was in the city of Baltimore That I owned a flowered farm I courted many a Wexford girl With dark and roving eyes I asked her for to marry me And yes, was her reply; I went up to here father's house About 8 o'clock one night I asked her for to take a walk Our wedding day to appoint We walked along quite easily Til I came to a level ground I broke a stake out of the fence And beat this fair maid down; Down on her bended knees she fell And, "mercy she did cry" Oh, Willie dear, don't murder me here I'm not prepared to die He heeded not the words she said But he beat her all the more Til all the ground for yards around Was in a bloody gore. I went up to my mother's house About 12 o'clock that night My mother, she'd been sittin' up a-waitin' She took an awful fright Oh son, dear son, what have you done What bled your hands and clothes The answer that I made to my mother "I was bleeding at the nose;" I asked her for a candle To light my way to bed Likewise, for a handkerchief, to wrap Around my aching head I tied it and I twisted it But no comfort could I find The flames of hell shown around me My true love not far behind; It was in about three weeks before This fair maid was found Floatin' down the river That leads to Wexford town And all that saw her said She was fair, a handsome bride That she was fit for any king Or any Squire's bride; I was taken on suspicion And locked in the Wexford jail For there was none to pity me Or none to go my bail Come ye, all you loyal true lovers A warning take by me And never treat your own true love To any cruelty; For if you do, you'll rue like me Until the day you die You'll hang like me, a murderer All on the gallows high. Recorded by Benny Barnes DT #628 Laws F5 filename[ WXFRDGRL GG oct97
PLEASE NOTE: Because of the volunteer nature of The Digital Tradition, it is difficult to ensure proper attribution and copyright information for every song included. Please assume that any song which lists a composer is copyrighted ©. You MUST aquire proper license before using these songs for ANY commercial purpose. If you have any additional information or corrections to the credit or copyright information included, please e-mail those additions or corrections to us (along with the song title as indexed) so that we can update the database as soon as possible. Thank You. Wexford Girl, The (The Oxford, Lexington, or Knoxville Girl; The Cruel Miller; etc.) [Laws P35]DESCRIPTION: The singer invites the girl for a walk. They discuss their wedding. Then he takes up a club and attacks her. She begs him to spare her life. He beats her to death and throws her in the river. He is taken and hangedAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1889 KEYWORDS: wedding river murder trial execution FOUND IN: US(Ap,MA,MW,NE,SE,So) Canada(Mar) Britain(Scotland,England) REFERENCES (16 citations): Laws P35, "The Wexford Girl (The Oxford, Lexington, or Knoxville Girl; The Cruel Miller; etc.)" (Laws gives three broadside texts on pp. 104-112 of ABFBB) Randolph 150, "The Noel Girl" (12 texts, 5 tunes) Eddy 104, "The Murdered Girl" (8 texts, 2 tunes, but Laws assigns the B text to "The Banks of the Ohio" and omits the others. It would appear that Laws' A and C texts belong here) Doerflinger, pp. 288-290, "The Wexford Girl" (2 texts, 1 tune) Leach, pp. 785-787, "The Lexington Murder" (2 texts) Friedman, p. 225, "The Wexford Girl" (1 text+5 fragments of another text) Warner 7, "The Waxford Girl" (1 text, 1 tune) Cohen/Seeger/Wood, pp. 150-151, "Knoxville Girl" (1 text, 1 tune) Botkin-SoFolklr, p. 737, "The Knoxville Girl" (1 text, 1 tune) Kennedy 327, "The Oxford Girl" (1 text, 1 tune) Abrahams/Foss, pp. 115-116, "Knoxville Girl" (1 text, 1 tune) JHCox 90, "The Wesford Girl" (2 texts) MacSeegTrav 75, "The Wexford Girl" (1 text, 1 tune) Silber-FSWB, p. 224, "Knoxville Girl" (1 text) BBI, ZN1624, "Let all pretending Lovers"; ZN3196, "Young men and maidens all, give ear unto what I relate" DT 353, CRUELMIL* OXFRDTRG* PRETPOL2; (628), WXFRDGRL RECORDINGS: Mildred Tuttle, "Expert Town (The Oxford Girl)" (AFS; on LC12) CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "The Banks of the Ohio" [Laws F5] (plot) cf. "Camden Town" (plot) ALTERNATE TITLES: The Oxford Tragedy The Expert Girl Johnny McDowell The Prentice Boy Never Let the Devil Get the Upper Hand of You (Carter Family version) Notes: Ozark folklore links this to the murder of one Lula Noel, whose body was discovered by the Cowskin River in Missouri in 1892. The song, however, is obviously older. Doerflinger traces it to a broadside about a murder committed at Reading, England in 1774. - RBW Botkin, following Cox (who follows Belden), traces it to a British broadside, "Berkshire Tragedy" or "The Wittam Miller", circa 1700. - NR Laws also lists this broadside in his catalog (it is, in fact, one of the texts he prints), but adopts his title based on common traditional usage. Laws, in fact, draws a stemma, starting from the "Berkshire Tragedy," and listing a total of seven "recensions" (p. 119), though he considers the broadside to be merely of eighteenth century date. I have a problem with the whole reconstruction, though: It's too literary. Even if one assumes the original ballad was a broadside (and I think Laws assumes this more often than is justified), it does not follow that its entire history is found in the broadsides. The song is so common that one must suspect the larger share of the broadsides to be derived from tradition, rather than being the source of tradition. - RBW File: LP35 Go to the Ballad Search form The Ballad Index Copyright 2002 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. Wexford Girl Thread |
Subject: Lyr Add: EKEFIELD TOWN From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Jun 02 - 03:06 PM Here's an extraordinary contribution from Malcolm. -Joe Offer- Thread #31012 Message #401579 Posted By: Malcolm Douglas 19-Feb-01 - 01:49 PM Thread Name: Lyr Req: Hanged I shall be Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hanged I shall be
Having looked again at "Shepherd" Taylor's 1921 version referred to above, I think after all that it is the one used by the Albion Country Band; the tune is identical and the text not greatly different. Harry Cox's set of the song is similar textually, but sung to a quite different melody. Well, why not quote it all, then: |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: GUEST Date: 07 Jun 02 - 03:08 PM About 200 traditional versions are listed in Steve Roud's folksong index (and lots of broadside versions, too). |
Subject: Lyr Add: HANGÈD I SHALL BE (from R. Palmer) From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Jun 02 - 03:15 PM Here's a contribution from Wolfgang. -Joer Offer- Thread #4273 Message #23051 Posted By: Wolfgang Hell 05-Mar-98 - 07:47 AM Thread Name: ADD: Hanged I shall be Subject: Lyr Add: Hangèd I Shall Be^^
The Albion band (with Martin Carthy) sings this. The version including notes I post here comes from R. Palmer, Everyman's Book of English Country songs. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Mrrzy Date: 07 Jun 02 - 03:20 PM And here is another one, I have this on a murder ballads old LP, I think by Dean Gitter. I'm going to be acting this out with a friend at the faculty talent show this year - on the back of the record cover there is some info about the song, and they say that although there are a zillion boy-meets-girl boy-kills-girl ballads, this is unique because of the bleeding at the nose bit. I think the balladeer was under the impression that this might actually have been a true story at some point. Also, it has the prettiest melody contrasted with the most terrible lyrics, I really love it. As with all good murder ballads, it ends with a pun. My tender parents brought me here, providing for me well |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Jun 02 - 03:29 PM Mrr - what's the title of the one you posted? -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 07 Jun 02 - 03:39 PM I was going to suggest that this thread needed a "better" title, such as "'The Cruel Miller' and allies," but, after starting to write this, I realized that it is the claim of a "bloody nose" that puts these murder ballads together. There are many versions yet to be posted. It will be wonderful to have the best ones, and clear links to others, all in one thread. The summary by Malcolm Douglas is really good. I don't agree that the later versions are necessarily the best or most useful; the evolution of the song is nice to see and the latest often have copyright restrictions that should be noted. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Mrrzy Date: 07 Jun 02 - 04:20 PM Joe, I was afraid you'd ask that. It's not The Suffolk Miracle which is my favorite ghost ballad... I'll have to go back to the vinyl, which my Mom has, to answer that. I don't think it's The Miller or anything like that. Incidentally, the cruelest miller I know of song is the one who "up with her fingers and off with her rings, then he threw her back in the brook again" in one version of the song where one sister kills the other. In this song under study, the miller isn't who is cruel, unless you count the apprenti miller's boy as the miller. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Jun 02 - 04:45 PM Mrr, I broke your lyrics into stanzas and changed the fourth line of the first stanza. You had: I promised her I'd marry here and with here I did lie. Hope I did it right. Now, if we can come up with a title and a source? -Joe Offer- |
Subject: Lyr Add: BERKSHIRE TRAGEDY, OR THE WITTAM MILLER From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Jun 02 - 05:00 PM I found these lyrics at this site (click) [J. Pitts, Collection of ballads, songsheets] -Joe Offer- THE BERKSHIRE TRAGEDY, OR THE WITTAM MILLER. Being the Account of his Murdering his Sweetheart. YOUNG men and maidens give ear Unto what I shall now relate, O mark you well and you shall hear, Of my unhappy fate. Near famous Oxford town, I first did draw my breath O that I had been cast away, In an untimely birth, My tender parents brought me up, Provided for me well, And in the town of Wittam then They placed me in a mill. By chance upon an Oxford lass, I cast a wanton eye, And promised I would marry her, If she with me would lie, But to the world I do declare, With sorrow, grief and woe, This folly brought us in a snare And wrought our overthrow, For the damsel came to me and said, By you I am with child, I hope dear John you'll marry me For you have me defil'd. Soon after that her mother came, As you shall understand, And oftentimes did me persuade, To wed her out of hand, And thus perplex'd on every side I could no comfort find, So to make away with this creature, A thought came in my mind. About a month since Christmas last, Oh cursed be the day, The devil then did me persuade, To take her life away. I called her from her sister's door, At eight o`clock at night, Poor creature she did little dream, I owed her any spight. I told her if she'd walk with me, Aside a little way We both together would agree, About our wedding day, Thus I deluded her again, Into a private place. Then took a stick out of the hedge And struck her in the face. But she fell on bended knee, And did for mercy cry, For heaven's sake don't murder me; I am not fit to die. But I on her no pity took, But wounded her full sore, Until her life away I took, Which I can ne'er restore. With many grievous shrieks & cries She did resign her breath. And in an inhuman barbarous sort, I put my love to death. And then I took her by the hair To cover the foul sin, And dragged her to the river side, Then threw her body in. Thus in the blood of innocence, My hands were deeply dy'd, And shined in the purple gore, That should have been my bride. Then home unto my mill I ran, But sorely was amazed, My man he thought I had mischief done And strangely on me gaz'd. Oh, what's the matter then said he, You look as pale as death, What makes you shake and tremble so As though you had lost your breath? How came you by that blood upon Your trembling hands and clothes? I presently to him reply'd By bleeding at the nose. I wishfully upon him look'd, But little to him said, I snatch'd the candle from his hand, And went unto my bed. There I lay trembling all the night For I could take no rest, And perfect flames of hell did flash, Like lightning in my face. Next day the damsel being miss'd And no where to be found, Then I was apprehended soon, And to the assizes bound, Her sister did against me swear She reason had no doubt, That I had made away with her, Because I called her out. But Satan did me still persuade, I stiffly did deny, Quoth he there no witness can, Against thee testify. Now when her mother did her cry I scoffingly did say, On purpose then to frighten me, She sent her child away. I publish'd in the post boy then, My wickedness to blind Five guineas any one should have, That could her body find. But heaven had a watchful eye, Had brought it so about, That tho' I stiffly did deny, This murder would come out. The very day before the assize, Her body it was found, Floating before her father's door, At Hindsey Ferry Town, So I the second time was siezed, To Oxford brought with speed And here examined again, About the bloody deed. Now the Coroner and jury both, Together did agree, That this damsel was made away, And murdered by me. The justice too perceived the guilt, Nor either would take bail But the next morning I was sent, Away to Reading gaol. When I was brought before the judge My man did testify, That blood upon my hand & clothes That night he did espy, The judge he told the jury then, The circumstance was plain, Look on the prisoner at the bar, He has this creature slain. About the murder at the first The jury did divide, But when they brought their verdict in All of them guilty cry'd, The jailor took & bound me straight As soon as I was cast, And then within the prison strong, He there did lay me fast. With fetters strong then I was bound And shin bolted was I, Yet I the murder would not own, But did it still deny, My father did on me prevail, My kindred all likewise To own the murder which I did, To them with watery eyes, My father then he did me Saying, my son, oh, why, Have you brought yourself to shame And all your family, Father I own the crime I did, I guilty am indeed Which cruel fact I must confess Doth make my heart to bleed. The worst of death I do deserve, My crime is so base, For I no mercy shewed to her. Most wretched is my case. Lord grant me grace while I do pray That I may now repent, Before I from this wicked world Most shamefully am sent. Young men take warning by me All filthy lusts defy, By giving way to wickedness, Alas! this day I die Lord wash my hateful sins away Which have been manifold, Have mercy on me Lord I pray And Christ receive my soul. Pitts Printer, Wholesale Toy and Marble Warehouse, 5, Great St. Andrew Street, 7 Dials Transcription and glossary by Kirsten Culler. assizes: a court sitting at intervals in each county of England and Wales to administer criminal and civil law post boy: a boy or man who rides post; a letter carrier gaol: jail man manservant or valet; a usually male worker or employee cast record: register, or give (a vote). fetters: a shackle for holding a prisoner by the ankleany shackle or bond |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE NOEL GIRL (from Vance Randolph) From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 07 Jun 02 - 08:57 PM THE NOEL GIRL. The song is said to refer to the murder of Lula Noel, whose body was found in the Cowskin River near Lanagan, MO, Dec. 10, 1892. William Simmons, Joplin, MO, was convicted of the murder and sentenced to the penitentiary. See Sturgis, "History of McDonald County, Missouri," 1897, pp. 106-111. Here is a case of a local murder that mimicked the one in "The Wexford Girl" and the "Cruel Miller," a song cluster already known in the area. This coincidence led to the song becoming widely known. Randolph has 12 versions in part or in all in his "Ozark Folksongs." Here are two versions; I believe that (2) is the best; in that one, the miller IS the guilty party. Lyr. Add: THE NOEL GIRL (1) My father bound me a printer's boy 'Bout eighteen years of age, He bound me to a miller That I might learn some trade. And there I fell in love with an orphan girl With dark and spearkling eyes, I thought that I would marry her If she did not deny. I went into this lady's house About eight o'clock at night, But little did the lady know I owed her in despite. I asked her to take a walk with me To some far distant place, Where we might have some private talk And name the wedding date. She agreed to take a walk with me To some far distant place, Where we might have some private talk And name the wedding date. I took her by the lily-white hand And led her to the place, And from the fence I drew a stake And smoothed her down the face. She fell upon her bended knees, Oh Lord, have mercy on me, she cried, Oh John, my dear, don't murder me here For I'm not prepared to die. The second time I drew my stake Just as I did before, And out of her nose and eyes and mouth The gushing blood did flow. I took her by the lily-white hand And swung her round and round, And drug her down to the river's side And plunged her in to drown. I went into the miller's house About twelve o'clock at night, But little did the miller know As he gazed upon my sight. Oh Johnny dear, how came that blood Upon your hands, likewise your clothes? The only reply I gave the miller Was bleeding at the nose. I snatched the candle out of his hand And to my bed I ran, And there I lie a-trembling For the murder I had done. And there I lie a-trembling, Nopeace, no comfort, no rest, I felt the guilty pains of hell A-rushing through my breast. They took me up to *Washington, And there my life to try, And by my own confession I was condemmed to die. *Washington, MO. Mr. J. Will Short, Galena, MO, 1941- learned from his mother about 1890. Vance Randolph, one of 12 versions, vol. 2, pp. 98-99, with music, Ozark Folksongs. Lyr. Add: THE NOEL GIRL (2) 'Twas in the city of Pineville, I owned a floury mill, 'Twas in the city of Pineville, I used to live an' dwell One day I saw a pretty fair maid, On her I cast an eye, I told her I would marry her An' she believed a lie. I went unto her sister's house At eight o'clock at night, I ask her if she'd walk with me A little ways away. So arm in arm we walked along Till we come to a lonely place, Then I took a rail from off the fence An' struck her in the face. She fell down on her bended knees, An' loud for mercy cried, For heaven's sake don't murder me For I'm not prepared to die. I paid no attention to what she said, But kept on strikin' her more, Until I saw the innocent looks That I never could restore. I run my fingers through her coal black hair, To cover upp my sin, I drug her to the river side And there I plunged her in. When I returned unto my mill I met my servant John, He asked me why I looked so pale An' yet so very warm. An' what occasion so much blood Upon my hands and clothes? The sad an' only answer was A bleedin' from the nose. I lit my candle and went to bed Expectin' to get some rest, But it seemed to me the fires of hell Was a-burnin' in my breast. Come all young men an' warnin' take, That to your lovers prove true, An' never let the devil get The upper hand of you. Mrs Lee Stephens, White Rock, MO, 1927. From Vance Randolph, "Ozark Folksongs," vol. 2, pp. 92-94, with music.
|
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 07 Jun 02 - 09:20 PM Can we have tunes for these? I can get to the Randolph books when I have time, but it really ought to be the person who posts the texts who provides the rest. Joe: I gave tunes for a couple of examples quoted here; could you grab them for the Midi Pages and add links? This is a song-family that turns up very often. Although variants are interesting and important, there are in this case a great many of them; at this stage we probably need a copy of the earliest known text (see Bruce's site). |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: GUEST Date: 07 Jun 02 - 10:10 PM G. Malcolm Laws, Jr, in American Balladry from British Broadsides, 1957, devotes pp. 102-122 to discussion of versions, and reprints several broadside texts, and outlines the course of the reworkings (7 major variants). However, he didn't know about the original 17th century, "The Bloody Miller" |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Mrrzy Date: 12 Jun 02 - 10:52 AM As usual, I can sing it but I can't write the tune down. Meanwhile, Mom can't find the record, but I'm going up there this weekend and hope to find it myself. I'll post the title and the notes from the album cover. Anybody wants the tune, my email is up under whatever we call our member info pages, and we can set up a time to call so I can sing it... |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 12 Jun 02 - 01:35 PM Like Mrrzy, I can email the music, but I can't write it. Just write me on the personal pages. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Mrrzy Date: 12 Jun 02 - 01:39 PM I can't email it either, but with my email, you can set up some phone time like I did with NightWing, and I can sing it over the phone. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Mrrzy Date: 15 Jun 02 - 10:43 AM OK - I'm at Mom's. It's on the Paul Clayton "bloody ballads" record, not the Dean Gitter "ghost ballads" album. I always get those 2 confused. Here is what I have: Riverside Records RLP 12-615: Bloody Ballads - Classic British and American Murder Ballads sung by Paul Clayton The Miller's Boy The back of the record states: "This is an American version of the British broadside ballad known best as The Wexford Girl. Although very similar to other murder ballads deriving from British sources, this particular ballad strain is best identified by the lines in which the villain explains the blood on his clothes by saying he was 'bleeding at the nose.'" Not that they say ballad STRAIN, not individual ballad, which I think is interesting. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Mrrzy Date: 17 Jun 02 - 10:42 AM refresh |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: masato sakurai Date: 29 Aug 02 - 01:42 PM "Mountain Girl" by Hill Brothers [Realaudio] (Savoy 3016 - side A; recording and release dates unknown), from Honkingduck, is "Knoxville Girl." This record is not included in the list of "Knoxville Girl" in Meade, Spottswood & Meade, eds., Country Music Sources: A Biblio-Discography of Commercially Recorded Traditional Music (Southern Folklife Collection, University of North Carolina, 2002, p. 13). ~Masato |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 30 Aug 02 - 12:24 AM I notice that the text Joe quoted earlier from an old post of Wolfgang's is not fully credited. Hangèd I shall be was noted (as stated) by E.J. Moeran, from "Shepherd" Taylor of Hickling in Norfolk, 1921. It originally appeared in The Journal of the Folk Song Society, vol.VII issue 26, 1922 (p.23). That additional information was given in the thread from which my later post Ekefield Town (etc.) copied above, was extracted; in order to make better sense, it should follow Wolfgang's rather than precede it. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: GUEST Date: 30 Aug 02 - 12:57 AM It was Francis Cooper who got that bloody nose after killing Anne Nicols on Feb. 10, 1684. See notes at "The Bloody Miller" in Scarce Songs 2 at www.erols.com/olsonw |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE MOTHER'S MALISON (CLYDE'S WATER) From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Sep 02 - 07:51 PM I came across another bloody nose ballad in the Digital Tradition today. the note at the end is particularly interesting. -Joe Offer- THE MOTHER'S MALISON (CLYDE'S WATER) Young Willie stands in his stable And combing down his steed And looking through his white fingers His nose began to bleed. (repeat last two lines of every verse) Bring corn, corn to my horse And meat unto my men For I'm awa to Maggie's bowers I'll win or she lie doon. O Stay, O stay this ae nicht, Willie O stay and dinna gang For there is a noise in Clyde Waters Wid fear a thousand men. It's I've a steed in my stable Cost me twice twenty pounds And I'll put trust in his fore legs Tae carry me safe along. As I rode o'er yon high high hill And down yon dreary glen It's o spare me spare me Clyde waters O spare me as I gang Make me the wreck as I come back But spare me as I gang. As I rode o'er yon high high hill And down yon dreary glen It's I hae reached at Maggie's window Rise up and lat me in For my boots are full of Clyde waters And I'm frozen tae the chin. It's up arose her mother dear A' for tae speak tae him It's my stable's full of horse she says My barn's full of hay. And my bowers are full of gentlemen So ye can't get in till day. He turned his horse right round about Wi' the saut tear in his e'e I never thought tae come here this nicht And be denied by thee. As he rode o'er yon high hill And down yon dreary glen The rush that ran in Clyde waters Took Willie's cane frae him. As Willie he sat saddle o'er To catch his cane again The rush that ran in Clyde waters Took Willie's hat frae him. His brother being on the other side Cries Willie will ye droon- Oh had ye tae yer high horse heid He'll learn ye how to swim. [O why could I turn ae my high horse heid An learn how to swim? It's the deepest pot in a the Clyde And here that I maun droon.] It's up she rose her Maggie dear All in a frightful dream For she dreamt that Willie was here last nicht And she widna lat him in. Go to yer bed my daughter dear Lie doon and tak yer rest For it's nae the space of half an hour Since Willie left yer gate. [It's Maggie rose, put on her clothes An to the Clyde went she; The first step noo that she took in It took her tae the knee.] [The next step that she took in It took her tae the chin, In the deepest pot in a the Clyde She found her Willie in.] [So you have got a cruel mother And I have got another, But here we lie in Clyde water Like sister and like brother.] Child #216 From Bronson; collected from Miss N. Watson, Whitehall 1905 Bracketed verses added from version collected from Willie Edward, Banffshire, for completeness. Nosebleeds in English/Scottish folklore presaged tragedy. RG @death @river @family @courting filename[ CLYDWATR Tune file : CLYDWATR CLICK TO PLAY RG PLEASE NOTE: Because of the volunteer nature of The Digital Tradition, it is difficult to ensure proper attribution and copyright information for every song included. Please assume that any song which lists a composer is copyrighted ©. You MUST aquire proper license before using these songs for ANY commercial purpose. If you have any additional information or corrections to the credit or copyright information included, please e-mail those additions or corrections to us (along with the song title as indexed) so that we can update the database as soon as possible. Thank You. |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE OXFORD GIRL From: GUEST Date: 23 Sep 02 - 09:55 PM Here is a version from Lamar County, Texas. THE OXFORD GIRL 'Twas in the town of Oxford That I did live and dwell; 'Twas in the town of Oxford I owned a flour mill. I fell in love with an Oxford girl With dark and rolling eyes; I asked her if she'd marry me; She said she'd never deny. I told her that we'd take a walk Out in the meadows gay; I told her that we'd take a talk And name the wedding day. We walked along and we talked along Till we came to level ground; I up with a hand and stick And fairly knocked her down. She fell upon her bended knees, Crying, "Willie, please spare my life; Oh, Willie, my dear, don't murder me, For I'm not prepared to die." I did not listen to her cry But beat her more and more; I beat her until her body lay A-bleeding in the gore. I picked her up by the long yellow hair And slung her round and round; I took her to the Oxford stream And plunged her in to drown. "Lie there, lie there, you Oxford girl, You never will be my bride; Lie there, lie there, you Oxford girl, You never will be my bride." When I got home at twelve that night My mother woke in fright; "Oh, Willie, my son, what have you done To bloody your hands tonight?" I asked her for a candle To light my way to bed; I asked her for a handkerchief To bind my aching head. 'Twas in the town of Oxford That Oxford girl was found. A-floating down the Oxford stream That flows through Oxford town. "Oh, mother, they're going to hang me Between the earth and sky; Oh, mother, they're going to hang me, And I'm not prepared to die." Collected by the author about 1910, when he learned it from playmates. William A. Owens, 1950, Texas Folk Songs, pp. 81-83, with music. "It was published in America in the nineteenth century as a penny song sheet with the title "The Lexington Miller." |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: GUEST,Arbuthnot Date: 02 Nov 05 - 10:13 PM I was looking for something else and came across this thread. No-one has pointed out that Harry Cox learned most of his repertoire from a family collection of broadsheets - he had the words but no tunes. His tune is entirely different because he composed it himself, as he did with a lot of the songs he sung. Now you know, Malcolm! |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 02 Nov 05 - 11:50 PM You might find Chris Heppa's paper 'Harry Cox and his Friends: Song Transmission in an East Norfolk Singing Community' in Folk Music Journal vol 8, no 5, 2005, interesting, if you haven't already seen it. Harry's broadside collection has been commented on elsewhere, of course, but no firm conclusions seem to have been reached as to how far he relied upon it. Do you perhaps know something that other folk don't? I don't recall anyone suggesting that Harry composed many of his tunes himself, but my memory may easily be at fault. Perhaps you could help by specifying which tunes you think he made up, and which songs he got from print? Inside information of that sort (if that's what it is) might be very helpful to quite a lot of people. I only know a couple of people who knew Harry, and they knew him through working with him rather than through having sung with him, so that doesn't help. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: GUEST,Slag Date: 06 May 09 - 08:06 PM I found this among my late father's papers. I'm sure he wrote it from memory in his early 80's. This song appears to have had a profound effect on its listeners as so many variations are in existence. As recalled by Bob Carter: Twas in the town of Expert In the merry month of May There I met a lovely young maid And we planned our wedding day. I asked her to take a walk with me Along a narrow way To have a lovely chatter And while the hours away. We walked and talked along the way Til we came to level ground It was there I picked up an expert stick And knocked the fair maid down. She fell upon her bended knees, Saying "Lord, have mercy on me Oh Willie dear, don't murder me here, For I'm not prepared to die." I never said a word to her But beat her o're and o're Till the ground all around Was all in a bloody gore. Then I picked her up by her long yellow hair And swung her round and round Then I dragged her down to a little stream That flowed through Expert Town. It must have been three weeks or more Until her body was found It was found a floating in that little stream That flowed through Expert Town They took me on suspicion And threw me in the county Jail No one to go my bondage No one to go my bail. Her brother swore my life away Without a tear or doubt. He swore that I was the very young lad Who had taken his sister out. The Judge he found me guilty Twas murder in the first degree And now they're a taking my life away At this penitentiary. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Deckman Date: 06 May 09 - 10:31 PM WOW! |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: Jayto Date: 06 May 09 - 10:44 PM I love murder ballads. Violent songs in general lol hey why lie. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy Murder Ballads with bloody noses From: GUEST,Slag Date: 06 May 09 - 11:15 PM I have reflected on this for a little while. Two things hit me. One, that my very kind and loving father knew and REMEMBERED this song and Two; after checking it out here at the 'cat and having learned of its history and staying power, I had to ask why? I believe the answer is that the horrible crime is without any discernible motive and the message to the listener is that no one is exempt from crazy sudden urges that may sweep them up into some inexplicable and criminal act. A cautionary tale of the first water! |
Share Thread: |
Subject: | Help |
From: | |
Preview Automatic Linebreaks Make a link ("blue clicky") |