BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world

Subject: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: CapriUni
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 11:45 PM

The Mars rover "Spirit" landed on Mars on January 3rd, 2003. The rover "Opportunity" landed shortly afterward.

All the experts told us that the life expectancy of these brave little robots was three months. ... Two years later, they're both still going. Maybe they're not going as strong as they were when they were young ('arthitis' in a shoulder joint on one, and a bum wheel on the other), but they are still going.

Just goes to show what 'They' know...

(I just thought this BS section needed more celebratory threads)

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 11:52 PM

Over 74,000 images for viewing HERE. Out of those, over 1100 are new since 1-3-2006, sent by "Spirit!" It's awesome.

Thanks, CU, I agree, the BS could use some sprucing up.:->

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: Pied Piper
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 05:12 AM

It looks like Beagle 2 landed and deployed.
The next stage is to make more autonomous vehicles that can explore without constant control from earth, ultimately the Von Neumann Probe

PP

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: GUEST,G
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 05:24 AM

Excellent idea and thanks. I had not been keeping up, one of my main interests, and my Father was a major player many years ago in the building of part of the launch vehicles.


Thanks again, Capri!

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 07:12 AM

A self-replicating Von Neumann Probe? I rather hope not - see here:

With exponential growth, a single self-replicating probe could be expected to convert the entire mass of the Galaxy into copies of itself within 2 million years. Any species intelligent enough to build such a probe, Sagan and Newman argued, would also be intelligent enough to realize the danger of it and so would not embark upon the project in the first place. In the event of a von Neumann probe being released either accidentally or maliciously, it would be a prime duty of other, responsible civilizations, said Sagan and Newman, to stamp out the "infection" before it could spread.

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: Paul Burke
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 08:05 AM

That might be so, if they had no predators, and replication was perfect, and all material was equal. But some material will be unusable, and of the rest most will take more energy to convert than the replicator can access.

But, look, if they get thick enough on the ground to convert even a tiny fraction of the mass available into replicators, they will run up against each other, and try to convert each other into themselves. Assuming the replication mechanism to be less than perfect, mutations will arise that prey on the raw- material converting replicators.

Eventually, a whole series of quasi- stable ecologies of replicators will evolve, limited by locality (genetic drift if you like) and subject to the usual Malthusian fluctuations.

Much like what happened on Earth, really.

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: MMario
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 08:44 AM

there has been SF written about just such a probability, Paul (I can't think of the author or title at the moment)

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 09:35 AM

Shades of the Borg?*shiver*

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: CapriUni
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 10:52 AM

over 1100 are new since 1-3-2006, sent by "Spirit!" It's awesome.

1,100 images a day? Wow. The mind boggles.

I was prompted to make this post by thia story: Mars Rover Marks Second Anniversary of Landing, on NPR, last night, for those who're interested.

Oh, and there's also a typo in the first post to this thread. They landed in '04, not '03. Sorry about that.
--
The problem with a stable ecosystem of robots, though, is that if you get to have that many of them, wouldn't they interfere with the native ecosystem they were sent to study in the first place?

...Less shades of the borg, and more shades of bunny rabbits in Australia, I think.

And they wouldn't really be like borg, anyway, I don't think, because the Borg replicated by absorbing biological cultures. And it sounds like the robots Paul's talking about replicate like abeoba. And, besides, I think the Borg got a seriously bad rap. They were made to be the villian because Star Trek: The Next Generation needed villians. It's my firm belief that all living things, from protazoa to great blue whales, have some capacity for experiencing joy.

But that's more philosophy than exobiology.

Carry on.

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: MMario
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 11:24 AM

I wish I could remember the name of that novel. It had a probe from external to solar system malfunction - and crash on either Titan or Ganymede. The replication units had some software malfunctions - and the early part of the book walked them through the beginnings of the evolutionary process - the intruduction of "gender"; the diversion of "plant" from "animal" variants of the mechanical life forms - and then the story skipped to later generations of independently intelligent robotic "people" - through several stages of their history - and finished up at a feudal stage and their interaction with humans...

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: CapriUni
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 11:32 AM

I have many SF Geek friends who read my blog. I bet if I pose the question there, someone will eventually come up with the title, author, pubication date, and the wierd dream the author used as inspiration...

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: MMario
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 11:48 AM

found it! 'Code of the LifeMaker' - James P. Hogan. 1983

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 11:53 AM

The Laws of Robotics (Asimov) would surely dampen down such enthusiasm for sex on the part of a robot.

A

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: MMario
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 12:02 PM

Ever read 'Eggheads' Amos? Remember the blush-pink robix?

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 12:54 PM

Daleks...

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: MMario
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 12:58 PM

nope - daleks was cyborged....biological brains in mechanical bodies.

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: CapriUni
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 01:45 PM

Yeah... but, Amos --

If an organism (whether it is a biological or mechanical organism) gets to a level of complexity high enough to permit self-replication, wouldn't the universal laws of chaos far outweigh the moral laws devised by just one person?

Asimov could decree whatever "laws of robotics" he likes, but if, at a high enough level of evolution, the laws themselves could change.

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 07:41 PM

You must admit though, these particular little robots do look rather engaging.

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: Kaleea
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 07:59 PM

I couldn't get anywhere on that link. It is pretty amazing that the little buggers are still going like the evergizer bunny. I also thought the first Soviet Space Station was absolutely incredible, considering all the years it worked after it was supposed to have croaked.
Now if only all the dadgum leaders on the planet would just get along with each other as well as our planet's space explorers, maybe we could do more than "Imagine" peace.

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 08:44 PM

This should work better

If it doesn't, just try Google images and type in Mars Rovers.

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 08:53 PM

The problem of Von Neuman machiens was delt with in the TV series Stargate (Replicators). One solution would be to have a finite number of replications before shutting down .... a bit like life in general!
Why are these 2 little robots "Brave" ? Have they got some fancy algoritham we havent heard of yet? Still, on a posative note they have increased the level of awareness of space travel!

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 09:03 PM

If a civilisation were intelligent enough to produce such probes, it would also be clever enough to keep records of where each had been and stop any other probes going there. So no chance of them eating the universe.

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: CapriUni
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 01:26 AM

Clogger --

Forgive my poetic turn of mind... It's just that, well, I've seen interviews with the scientists that built these robots, and sent them into space, where they admitted that they had begun to think of them as their children.

If men and women trained to think with the precision of science can think of them that way, then surely I, who have been trained to think in the metaphoric and personifying ways of the poet, am allowed to think of them that way, too.

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 06:07 AM

CaprUni..... There is nothing to forgive. Even I, a level headed rational, normal human being, anthromorphisise a pile of rusting junk that I cajole into transporting me modest distances (a 10 Year old Volvo) into a sentient Demigod (female)!Something most car producers are fully aware of!
Seriously though, What a great acheavement! Well done Lads (and lasses)

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: CapriUni
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 02:23 PM

Well done Lads (and lasses)

Indeed. Both here on earth and beyond.

And is it just me, or do others think of "Spirit" and "Oportunity" as female, too (while R2d2 was clearly male)?

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: GUEST,Clogger
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 12:39 PM

If R2D2 was male what was C3P0?

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: MMario
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 02:37 PM

stereotyped. and R2D2 was adolescent male.

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 03:28 PM

If a civilisation were intelligent enough to produce such probes, it would also be clever enough...

That's a very hopeful attitude to take towards technology. Unfortunately, in the light of our own society, it doesn't really stand up that well. Especially if "clever" is replaced by "wise".

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: CapriUni
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 03:36 PM

Yes. "Clever" hardly ever has anything to do with wise. Just look at all fairytales where the two older siblings are so "clever" that they do nothing but cause themselves trouble, and it's the youngest "simpleton" who truly sees the value in things, and thereby ends up king or queen.

"Clever" just means "able to think up tricks, loopholes, and shortcuts." "Wise" means something far deeper.

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 02:11 PM

This is exciting and fits in this thread, imo. Found at Google News:

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A space capsule loaded with comet dust completed a 2.9 billion mile (4.7 billion kilometer) journey on Sunday, landing safely in the Utah desert and ending a seven-year wait for clues to the solar system's origins.

The Stardust mission ended early Sunday when the 100-pound (45 kg) capsule landed at the U.S. Air Force Utah Test and Training range two minutes ahead of schedule at 3:10 a.m. (5:10 a.m. EST/1010 GMT).

"We visited a comet, grabbed a piece of it, and landed here this morning," said Don Brownlee, an astronomy professor with the University of Washington who is principal investigator for the Stardust mission. "It was a real thrill."

The mission marks the first time since 1972 that any extraterrestrial solid material has been collected and brought back to Earth, and the first time ever for comet particles.

Comets are thought to be leftovers from the process of planet formation, and scientists hope the dust collected by Stardust will give them clues about the origins of the solar system 4.5 billion years ago.

Television images showed scientists and engineers in the control room at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, cheering and applauding both at landing and earlier when the capsule's two parachutes deployed as it roared across the western United States toward its target.

"This thing went like clockwork," Stardust Project Manager Tom Duxbury said at a news conference following the landing. "To see that thing in one piece on the floor of the desert is very moving."

In 2004, a capsule called Genesis carrying solar ions crashed to Earth when its parachute failed to deploy, raising concerns about Stardust's return. The Stardust team spent six months reviewing its spacecraft's design to make sure there were no errors, and NASA officials said they were prepared for a hard landing.

RACING BACK TO EARTH

The canister entered the Earth's atmosphere at a speed of 28,860 miles per hour (46,440 km per hour), the fastest of any man-made object on record. It took just 13 minutes for the capsule to travel through the atmosphere on its way to the remote military base.

Less than an hour after the landing, three helicopters retrieved the capsule from the windy and dark desert floor, helped by infrared and radar tracking devices.    Continued ...

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: CapriUni
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 02:58 PM

The canister entered the Earth's atmosphere at a speed of 28,860 miles per hour (46,440 km per hour), the fastest of any man-made object on record.

All together, now:

Wheeee!!!

To paraphrase Woody from "Toy Story:" That's not flying! That's falling with style!"

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: MMario
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 03:09 PM

2.9 million miles and they were ten minutes off schedule? Disgraceful!

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: CapriUni
Date: 15 Jan 06 - 03:13 PM

Two minutes off schedule, MMario. Not ten.

... that's even worse!

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Jan 06 - 05:30 AM

To Infinity and Beyond!

Subject: RE: BS: 2 brave little robots on a distant world
From:
Date: 16 Jan 06 - 06:15 AM

C3PO was/is female, real name Wendy Leech.
As for Beagle that was Colin Farrel's baby all right, he was so sad when it got lost. BTW didn't he use to play with The Wurzels?
Giok