BS: Realizations about Iran

Subject: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST,Mohammed
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 08:02 PM

Thank you, President Bush. You have knocked off our two largest enemies in the Middle East, the Taliban and Saddam. And now your country is too bogged down to take on a 3rd front. Sorry. I guess the Americans who think you are stupid are right but that is not my problem.

Thank you again, President Bush.

Mohammed

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: freda underhill
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 08:09 PM

Iran has offered to engage in "serious talks", but hasn't definitively offered to suspend its uranium enrichment. Trita Parsi of the Washington-D.C-based Center for Arms Control and Nonproliferation, thinks that the Iranians are willing to bargain.
"The Iranians will likely agree to negotiations that may lead to at least a temporary suspension, but not agree to this as a precondition," Parsi told AFP after the Iranian announcement. "As disappointing as this response may be for Washington, it should not be seen as the end of the negotiating track."

The first step the United States is likely to take is to ask the Security Council to impose sanctions on Iran. But what if sanctions do not have the intended effect? Will the Bush Administration then go into Iran guns blazing?

Scholar and historian Gareth Porter thinks so. In a recent analysis written for the Inter Press Service, he contends that the Bush Administration is setting the stage for a war, and has never been interested in offering the security guarantees that Iran has been looking for as an incentive to give up its nuclear project.

"Despite the desire of other members of the P5+1 for a genuine diplomatic offer to Iran that could possibly lead to an agreement on its nuclear program, the Bush Administration's intention was just the opposite," Porter writes. "Bush's objective was to free the administration of the constraint of multilateral diplomacy. The Administration evidently reckoned that, once the Iranians had rejected the formal offer from the P5+1, it would be free to take whatever actions it might choose, including a military strike against Iran."

The Oxford Research Group determined earlier this year that as many as 10,000 people could die in a U.S. assault on Iran.

from Negotiating with Iran Is the Only Solution by Amitabh Pal Published on Friday, August 25, 2006 by The Progressive

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: dianavan
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 08:56 PM

Mohammed - Lets hope the U.S. does not want to take on a 3rd front and will negotiate instead. Lets hope they concentrate their troop efforts on capturing bin Laden alive. That would make everyone a lot happier.

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST,Mohammed
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 09:47 PM

Not to fear, dianavan. The United States is stretched way too thin to take on a 3rd front. We fully understand that our position is very good. We are the the strength of the Arab world now. Your president will come to realize this and enter into meaningful negotiations about our differences. He has no other options. He has completely painted himself into a corner.

The events are taking place too fast now for the United States to wait for the next president to make the right calls. President Bush will have to make the call to negotiate.

Yes, this will be bad for him politically since his support comes from the Christain Conservatives and many Jews in American but he has put himself in his bed and he must now lay in it.

M():->

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 09:55 PM

Did you mean "lay" as in egg, or "lie" as in politics?

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST,Allah
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 09:59 PM

Mohammed, where have you been?

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 10:24 PM

On the Mountain...

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST,Fatima
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 10:37 PM

we can't go on bleating like this..

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 10:44 PM

Go tell it on a mountain..

anywhere but here!

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: Peace
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 11:47 PM

Go tell it on a mountain..


Over the hills and everywhere?

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 04:51 AM

"The Oxford Research Group determined earlier this year that as many as 10,000 people could die in a U.S. assault on Iran."


And the estimate of the number that might be killed in a global nuclear war????

Iran has stated it will destroy Israel. Israel will retaliate, as will other countries.China, and Russia will get into it over the loss of oil, and North Korea will toss a few at Japan just to show it can't be bullied.


I would think 800,000,000 to 2,000,000,000 dead, unless Pakistan and India decide it is a good time to settle differences, then all bets are off. At least 4,000,000,000 dead within 3 months.

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 05:14 AM

Let's hope Gareth Porter is so wrong as he was about the Pol Pot regime.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST,van lingle
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 07:31 AM

"We are the strength of the Arab world now."
The population of Iran is only 3% Arab, Mohammed and don't underestimate the stupidity of our president. He's liable to do anything. vl

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 07:56 AM

"At least 4,000,000,000 dead within 3 months"

... before the radioactive clouds drift everywhere - now where's my copy of "On the Beach"?

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: freda underhill
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 09:28 AM

and in case you didn't see it.. remember that joke about George Bush? Tony Blair asks him, how do you know for sure that Saddam has WMDs? Dubya says, no prob - we've got the recepits...

read on..

U.S. built major Iranian nuclear facility

By Sam Roe
Tribune staff reporter
Posted August 23 2006, 9:56 PM EDT

In the heart of Tehran sits one of Iran's most important nuclear facilities, a dome-shaped building where scientists have conducted secret experiments that could help the country build atomic bombs. It was provided to the Iranians by the United States.

The Tehran Research Reactor represents a little-known aspect of the international uproar over the country's alleged weapons program. Not only did the U.S. provide the reactor in the 1960s as part of a Cold War strategy, America also supplied the weapons-grade uranium needed to power the facility—fuel that remains in Iran and could be used to help make nuclear arms.

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: Old Guy
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 10:48 AM

We built one for North Korea too. Right Bill?

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 01:49 PM

GUEST, Allah,

Like they say here, LOL. You know exactly where I have been.

GUEST, van lingle,

Yes, we are 3%, perhaps as much as 4%, of the population of the Arab world. But we are the 3% that most concerns President Bush because he realizes that we now represent the strongest Arab country in the Middle East.

M():->

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST,Thor
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 04:52 AM

This thread is incredible. You're all really Christians.

Thor %^)

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 04:58 AM

... except for us Athetists...

Thor - Where?

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 09:18 AM

Well, gol danged, Mo... Seems you're hittin' the nail on the head here...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 11:10 AM

The Atoms For Peace Programme

President Dwight D. Eisenhower was determined to solve "the fearful atomic dilemma" by finding some way by which "the miraculous inventiveness of man" would not be dedicated to his death, but consecrated to his life." In his "Atoms for Peace" speech before the United Nations on December 8, 1953, Eisenhower sought to solve this terrible problem by suggesting a means to transform the atom from a scourge into a benefit for mankind. Although not as well known as his warning about the "military industrial complex," voiced later in his farewell radio and television address to the American people, Eisenhower's Atoms for Peace speech embodied his most important nuclear initiative as President. From it sprang a panoply of peaceful atomic programs. With it Eisenhower placed the debate over the control of nuclear science and technology, which had largely been the province of government officials and contractors, squarely before the public. Indeed, the present public controversy over nuclear technology and its role in American society can be traced back to Eisenhower's determination that control of nuclear science was an issue for all Americans.

Eisenhower's Atoms for Peace speech reflected his deep concern about "Atoms for War." The escalating nuclear arms race between the United States and the Soviet Union, which included the development of thermonuclear bombs, brought Eisenhower to the United Nations. Since Hiroshima, the destructive power of nuclear weapons had increased dramatically. Nuclear weapons technology, thus far a product of American expertise, would also eventually enter the arsenals of the Soviet Union through the normal processes of technological development. Eisenhower felt a moral imperative to warn the American people and the world of this new reality.

Rapid strides in nuclear weapons in nuclear weapons technology had begun at the end of World War II. In 1945 the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan had killed an estimated 106,000 people and had injured approximately 110,000 others. The larger of the two, the Nagasaki bomb, had released the explosive equivalent of 23,000 tons of TNT. In 1948 the United States had tested even larger atomic bombs in the Pacific, and by 1949 the Soviet Union had achieved its own nuclear capability with the detonation of a nuclear device. In response to the Soviet atomic bomb program, the United States had embarked upon a crash program to develop an even larger weapon, the hydrogen bomb, which promised explosive power in the range of millions of tons of TNT. The United States successfully detonated a hydrogen device in November 1952; just a few days after Eisenhower won the Presidency. The awesome 10-megaton blast had destroyed the test island of Elugelab, creating an underwater crater 1,500 yards in diameter. With it the United States and the world entered the thermonuclear age.
Before Eisenhower's inauguration, the Atomic Energy Commission secretly briefed the President-elect on the successful thermonuclear test. In addition, the commission informed Eisenhower that the American nuclear stockpile was growing rapidly, that other startling improvements in weapons design were being made, and that the tempo of weapon testing was increasing. Even more quickly than his advisers, Eisenhower understood that a "nuclear holocaust" was now a possibility. Driven by the specter of the hydrogen bomb, he began to search for some means of halting or slowing the arms race..

..On September 10, 1953, President Eisenhower himself proposed the idea that laid the foudnation for the Atoms for Peace speech. "Suppose," he suggested, "the United States and the Soviets were each to turn over to the United Nations, for peaceful use, [a number of] kilograms of fissionable material." The fissionable material would be contributed from the weapons stockpiles of both contries, thereby reducing their military reserves. If a sufficiently large quantity of fissionable material could be shifted from military stockpiles to peaceful uses, Eisenhower's proposal would serve as a significant mechanism for nuclear disarmament. Although he did not immediately see it as such, the President had at last found a glimmer of hope with which to offset the specter of thermonuclear war...

...For a few seconds the hall remained still and silent. Then 3,500 delegates broke into one of the most enthusiastic demonstrations in the history of the Untied Nations. Wave after wave of applause resounded throughout the auditorium, and even the Soviet delegation joined the tumult. From his chair, Eisenhower received the ovation with surprise, his eyes shining with emotion. Spontaneously the press labeled his address "Atoms for Peace." His speech, which had been broadcast worldwide by the Voice of America, was generally received with enthusiasm outside of the Soviet bloc. Virtually every commentator agreed that in one of the most significant speeches of the postwar era, Eisenhower had taken a courageous and potentially constructive step toward peace...

http://www.eisenhower.archives.gov/atom1.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 11:23 AM

DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER TIMELINE BIOGRAPHY

    ...Troubles in the Middle East also demanded he President's attention. In 1953 the United States covertly backed anti-government forces in Iran, which overthrew a communist-backed regime and restored the pro-West Shah to power. In late 1956 tensions ran high when the Suez Canal Crisis erupted: Israel invaded the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula while British and French forces attacked Egyptian bases near the Canal because Egyptian President Nasser had nationalized the international waterway. But Eisenhower refused to back America's closest allies, certain that if the U.S. entered the conflict on the side of the European colonial powers and Israel, such intervention would destroy American prestige among Third World Nations. The result would be massive Soviet penetration of these developing nations. Lacking U.S. support, England and its friends backed off, and the crisis eased.

Nevertheless, instability in the Middle East continued, leading to the Eisenhower Doctrine in 1957, which authorized the use of U.S. forces to assist Middle East nations whose political instability would invite Soviet penetration. In 1958 the President deployed Marines to Lebanon in order to stabilize exactly that kind of situation....

http://www.eisenhower.archives.gov/ddebio.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 11:51 AM

Iran's Nuclear Programme

...Originally started under the Shah of Iran in the 1950s, with the help of the United States, the Iranian nuclear programme is an effort by Iran to develop nuclear technology. After the 1979 revolution, the programme was temporarily disbanded. It was soon resumed, albeit with less Western assistance than the pre-revolution era. Iran's current nuclear programme consists of several research sites, a uranium mine, a nuclear reactor, and uranium processing facilities that include a uranium enrichment plant. The Iranian government asserts that the programme's only goal is to develop the capacity for peaceful nuclear power generation, and plans to generate 6000MW of electricity with nuclear power plants by 2010.[1] As of 2006 nuclear power does not contribute to the Iranian energy grid...

..The Tehran Nuclear Research Center (TNRC) is managed by the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran (AEOI). It is equipped with a U.S.-supplied 5-megawatt nuclear research reactor capable of producing 600g of plutonium annually in spent fuel. 17 years production would be sufficient to make a single atomic bomb, however storage of the waste is closely monitored by the IAEA and extracting the plutonium is not possible while Iran maintains its status as a signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran's_nuclear_program

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: pdq
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 12:02 PM

"...extracting the plutonium is not possible while Iran maintains its status as a signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty..."

And just who is going to stop them? The UN? Russia?

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST,thew
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 03:58 AM

No, pdq, YOU are going to stop them, of course...

Hell, a country that is capable of building one atomic bomb every seventeen years is obviously a threat to all life as we know it and should be exterminated with extreme prejudice, shouldn't they? Let's get right to it, boyo. Life as we know it depends on YOU.

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 07:29 AM

Censorship, Scepticism and Conspiracy Theories (link to DER SPIEGEL article)

Information in Iran is largely controlled by the state, leading many Iranians to discount all media, no matter where it comes from.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: pdq
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 01:26 PM

...from the article Wolfgang linked to in Der Spiegel:

"State television's coverage of the nuclear conflict is painted in equally bold strokes. Iran's nuclear program is presented, whenever possible, as a symbol of scientific, not military, progress. At the stage-managed event in February celebrating Iran's successful enrichment of uranium, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad delivered a speech before a backdrop depicting a flock of doves, after which a group of interpretive dancers performed a ballet about the beauty of enriched uranium."

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 08:21 PM

"Iran has stated it will destroy Israel."

It hasn't actually. Hoping for a situation where there would no longer be a state called Israel on the map is not the same as wishing to "destroy" the place.

There are plenty of people who hope for a day when there will no longer be a state called the United Kingdom incorporating Scotland and part of Ireland, but that isn't the same as wanting to "destroy" the United Kingdom.

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 08:50 PM

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iran's president, who last October said Israel "must be wiped off the map," stoked tensions with the Jewish state Friday saying, "the Zionist regime is a dying tree, and soon its branches will be broken down."

Despite that, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said in a speech that Israel remains a threat to Islamic countries.

"The existence of the Zionist regime is tantamount to an imposition of an unending and unrestrained threat so that none of the nations and Islamic countries of the region and beyond can feel secure from its threat," Reuters News Agency quoted Ahmadinejad as saying in Friday's speech.

...

In his October speech, Ahmadinejad said the "new wave of confrontations generated in Palestine and the growing turmoil in the Islamic world would in no time wipe Israel away," according to paraphrased statements reported by Iran's Islamic Republic News Agency. (Full story)

In December, Ahmadinejad continued the verbal assault against Israel, calling the Holocaust a "myth." (Full story)

"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets," Ahmadinejad said in the December speech. "If you have burned the Jews, why don't you give a piece of Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska to Israel?"

Friday he again questioned the killing of millions of Jews during World War II.

"If such a tragedy were true," said Ahmadinejad, "why with force, by killing, does it have to be compensated?"

Ahmadinejad on Friday was addressing a room full of representatives from Middle Eastern and some African nations for a gathering billed as a conference "on Jerusalem and support for the rights of the Palestinian people."

He described the Holocaust -- in which 6 million Jews and millions of others were killed by the Nazis -- as a story that "many countries believe."

Ahmadinejad said Palestinians are being subjected to a "holocaust."

"And is this holocaust worse than or less bad than the holocaust you claim that has taken place? There is no doubt in the holocaust that exists in Palestine at the moment, and has been existing for the last 60 years."

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 11:07 PM

Our next president should prove to us he has read the 'art of war'.

or at least knows how to play chess.

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 02:34 PM

the resolution of the Holocaust issue will end in the destruction of Israel. (during a visit with students at Gilan University in Rasht, Iran, Mohammad Ali Ramin, advisor to Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 03:16 PM

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

May he rest in peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 01:30 PM

"The resolution of the Holocaust issue will end in the destruction of Israel."

Can you please put this statement in context?

While I agree that Israel as a political state should be replaced with a secular government, I do not understand how this will resolve the issue of the Holocaust.

The Holocaust was a terrible tragedy. There have been many recorded cases of genocide and they are still occurring. I doubt if there is anything anyone can do to make up for it. All we can do is remain vigilant and alert the world to atrocities. Israel is guilty of aggression and indiscriminate killing of civilians. Just because others are guilty does not make them less guilty.

Subject: RE: BS: Realizations about Iran
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 01:35 PM

"Israel is guilty of aggression and indiscriminate killing of civilians."


Unproven, and untrue statement.




Hezbollah is guilty of aggression and indiscriminate killing of civilians.

True and proven statement. Unless you consider Israeli MOSLIM children to be valid military targets. Maybe you do...