|
15 Sep 02 - 08:37 AM (#784302) Subject: The Rose of England From: Hecate Apparently this is a ballad about the battle of Bosworth and the wars of the roses. That's the sum and total of what I know cos all I have is a reference in a history book, but it sounded like an interesting thing. The book references it to someone called "Pollard" - which might help, I don't know. If anyone has the words, that would be handy, access to a tune would also be good. I live in hope....... |
|
15 Sep 02 - 09:13 AM (#784313) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose of England From: masato sakurai Isn't A PRINCELY DITTY, IN PRAISE OF THE ENGLISH ROSE the one? It is from Thomas Deloney's Works: The Garland of Good Will (In the second Part; 5. "In praise of the English Rose"). It seems that no tune was recorded. According to Bruce Olson's Broadside Ballad Index,
Among the Princely Paragons/ ZN3554| A Princely Ditty, in praise of the English Rose/ Tune: none idicated/ 'Garland of Goodwill', Mann's 'Deloney' ~Masato
|
|
15 Sep 02 - 09:15 AM (#784315) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose of England From: masato sakurai Tune: none indicated |
|
15 Sep 02 - 09:54 AM (#784331) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose of England From: Sir Roger de Beverley I thought that it was the Nick Lowe song to which you referred (as recorded by The Oyster Band) and that, I think, is about the Falkland War. R |
|
15 Sep 02 - 10:06 AM (#784343) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose of England From: Susan of DT The Rose of England is Child #166 and is in my copy of the Digital Tradition, with a 1998 entry date, but does not come up on the search here. Try again later in case the search is not working right or PM me with your snail address and I will send it to you. |
|
15 Sep 02 - 10:28 AM (#784354) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose of England From: masato sakurai Thanks, Susan. I didn't think it is a Child ballad. Text is here: The Child Ballads (Child 166A: The Rose of England). No entry of #166 is in Bronson. ~Masato |
|
15 Sep 02 - 10:49 AM (#784362) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose of England From: GUEST Pollard- a famous bibliographer (sometimes with Redgrave). Look up by title in STC = Short Title Catalog (of almost everything known to have been printed in England. It's still very useful, but a bit out of date.) |
|
15 Sep 02 - 02:12 PM (#784494) Subject: Lyr Add: ROSE OF ENGLAND (Child #166)^^^ From: Susan of DT Here is a copy from the DT of Child #166, The Rose of England^^^ ROSE OF ENGLAND THROUGHOUT a garden greene and gay, A seemlye sight itt was to see How fflowers did flourish fresh and gay, And birds doe sing melodiouslye. In the midst of a garden there sprange a tree, Which tree was of a mickle price, And there vppon sprang the rose soe redd, The goodlyest that euer sprange on rise. This rose was ffaire, ffresh to behold, Springing with many a royall lance; A crowned king, with a crowne of gold, Ouer England, Ireland, and of Ffrance. Then in came a beast men call a bore, And he rooted this garden vpp and downe; By the seede of the rose he sett noe store, But afterwards itt wore the crowne. Hee tooke the branches of this rose away, And all in sunder did them teare, And he buryed them vnder a clodd of clay, Swore they shold neuer bloome nor beare. Then came in an egle gleaming gay, Of all ffaire birds well worth the best; He took the branche of the rose away, And bore itt to Latham to his nest. But now is this rose out of England exiled, This certaine truth I will not laine; But if itt please you to sitt a while, I'le tell you how the rose came in againe. Att Milford Hauen he entered in; To claime his right, was his delight; He brought the blew bore in with him, To encounter with the bore soe white. Then a messenger the rose did send To the egles nest, and bidd him hye: `To my ffather, the old egle, I doe me comend, His aide and helpe I craue speedylye.' Saies, I desire my father att my cominge Of men and mony att my need, And alsoe my mother of her deer blessing; The better then I hope to speede. And when the messenger came before thold egle, He kneeled him downe vpon his knee; Saith, Well greeteth you my lord the rose, He hath sent you greetings here by me. Safe ffrom the seas Christ hath him sent, Now he is entered England within: `Let vs thanke God,' the old egle did say, `He shall be the fflower of all his kine. `Wend away, messenger, with might and maine; Itt's hard to know who a man may trust; I hope the rose shall fflourish againe, And haue all things att his owne lust.' Then Sir Rice ap Thomas drawes Wales with him; A worthy sight itt was to see, How the Welchmen rose wholy with him, And shogged them to Shrewsburye. Att that time was baylye in Shrewsburye One Master Mitton, in the towne; The gates were strong, and he mad them ffast, And the portcullis he lett downe. And throug a garrett of the walls, Ouer Severne these words said hee; `Att these gates no man enter shall;' But he kept him out a night and a day. These words Mitton did Erle Richmond tell (I am sure the chronicles of this will not lye); But when lettres came from Sir William Stanley of the Holt castle, Then the gates were opened presentlye. Then entred this towne the noble lord, The Erle Richmond, the rose soe redd; The Erle of Oxford, with a sword, Wold haue smitt of the bailiffes head. `But hold your hand,' saies Erle Richmond, `Ffor his loue that dyed vpon a tree! Ffor if wee begin to head so soone, In England wee shall beare no degree.' `What offence haue I made thee,' sayd Erle Richmonde, `That thou kept me out of my towne?' `I know no king,' sayd Mitton then, `But Richard now, that weares the crowne.' `Why, what wilt thou say,' said Erle Richmonde, `When I haue put King Richard downe?' `Why, then Ile be as true to you, my lord, After the time that I am sworne.' `Were itt not great pitty,' sayd Erle Richmond, `That such a man as this shold dye, Such loyall service by him done? (The cronickles of this will not lye.) `Thou shalt not be harmed in any case;' He pardoned him presentlye; They stayd not past a night and a day, But towards Newport did they hye. But at Attherston these lords did meete; A worthy sight itt was to see, How Erle Richmond tooke his hatt in his hand, And said, Cheshire and Lancashire, welcome to me! But now is a bird of the egle taken; Ffrom the white bore he cannot fflee; Therfore the old egle makes great moane, And prayes to God most certainly. `O stedfast God, verament,' he did say, `Thre persons in one god in Trinytye, Saue my sonne, the young egle, this day Ffrom all ffalse craft and trecherye!' Then the blew bore the vanward had; He was both warry and wise of witt; The right hand of them he tooke, The sunn and wind of them to gett. Then the egle ffollowed fast vpon his pray, With sore dints he did them smyte; The talbott he bitt wonderous sore, Soe well the vnicorne did him quite. And then came in the harts head; A worthy sight itt was to see, The iacketts that were of white and redd, How they laid about them lustilye. But now is the ffeirce ffeeld foughten and ended, And the white bore there lyeth slaine, And the young egle is preserued, And come to his nest againe. But now this garden fflourishes ffreshly and gay, With ffragrant fflowers comely of hew, And gardners itt doth maintaine; I hope they will proue iust and true. Our king, he is the rose soe redd, that now does fflourish ffresh and gay: Confound his ffoes, Lord, wee beseeche, And loue His Grace both night and day! Child #166 Version from Child from Percy @history Henry VII (rose) winning crown from Richard III (boar) filename[ ROSENGL LMP |
|
16 Sep 02 - 06:34 AM (#784959) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose of England From: Ringer An interesting 6-bell treble-bob method. Click Here Doesn't take as long to ring as to sing! |
|
16 Sep 02 - 06:47 AM (#784964) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose of England From: IanC The song was quite probably written to celebrate the birth of Prince Arthur to Henry VII and Elizabeth of York. The child was known as "The Rose of England".
:-) |
|
16 Sep 02 - 07:05 AM (#784975) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose of England From: Hecate looks like those are probably the words I was after, cheers. Anyone got a version of the tune not designed for hand bells as i don't know how to read it? Or can someone explain to me how to read music for hand bells so that i can transcribe it? cheers. |
|
17 Sep 02 - 05:04 AM (#785835) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose of England From: Ringer I'm afraid, Hecate, there's no relationship at all between the tune you're looking for and the method I linked. Though the latter can be rung on handbells, it's more commonly rung on tower bells. I only posted the link because (a) I was showing off, and (b) it's a favourite method of mine, being one of the last my local band learned to ring before two members left and the whole band fell to pieces. |
|
17 Sep 02 - 05:09 AM (#785837) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose of England From: Hecate Right ho, ah well, I had a moment of confusion blended strangely with optimism there. I guess if all else fails I will have to 'borrow' a tune from somewhere else. |
|
17 Sep 02 - 10:22 AM (#785976) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose of England From: Malcolm Douglas I'm afraid you will have to. As Masato said earlier, Bronson found no traditional tune for this one, and none seems to have emerged since. In fact, the song itself has been found once only in tradition (Child's text was from a printed source), and that was as a two-verse fragment without tune, sent to the collector Helen Hartness Flanders by George J. Edwards of Burlington, Vermont, in 1934. He said that it had been in his family (which originated in Northumbria) "for many generations". (Ballads Migrant in New England, Flanders and Olney, 1953). |