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30 Mar 03 - 04:56 PM (#921996) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: GUEST |
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30 Mar 03 - 04:58 PM (#921998) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: GUEST Well, the "make a link" thing doesn't seem to be working. Here's the URL: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030326/170/3mouc.html&e=8 Fixed it. Maybe you copied the "test this link" part instead of the text right under "Cut and paste this link:"? --JoeClone |
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30 Mar 03 - 06:10 PM (#922036) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: GUEST Thanks for the fix. Unfortunately, that picture says a thousand words about an undercurrent that has alienated many from the peace/anit-war movement. |
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30 Mar 03 - 09:30 PM (#922174) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: Troll Yep! That would do it all right. Most protesters are savvy enough to say "Zionists" instead of "Jews". There is a difference but most are unaware of it. But Zionists doesn't have the same anti-semitic ring that Jews does. troll |
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31 Mar 03 - 08:28 AM (#922397) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: GUEST,Sean Waltman According to Pat Buchanan and Robert Novack, who are hardly leftists, the war in Iraq is to protect Jewish-Israeli interests. |
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31 Mar 03 - 09:41 AM (#922461) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: Beccy Pat Buchanan- in case you didn't notice- has lost quite a few of his apologists for making statements such as that. He's an isolationist, anti-semitic boob. He's always been gloom-and-doom and Mr. Worst-Case-Scenario. Becc |
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31 Mar 03 - 10:02 PM (#923079) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: GUEST,Sean Waltman It's not just right wing wing nuts like Buchannan who are trying to blame the war on Jews and/or Israel. Similar statements have come from some on the left as well. |
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31 Mar 03 - 10:10 PM (#923086) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: Forum Lurker Well, yes, there are left wing nuts as well. This war has no more to do with Israel than it does with Liechtenstein. |
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01 Apr 03 - 10:02 AM (#923504) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: GUEST,Sean Waltman I found it very tragic that the Palestinian suicide bomber in Israel this week dedicated his explosion to the "heroic Iraqui people." In my opinion, the anti-war marchers in Gaza this week have not been marching for peace, but in support of Saadam, an evil dictator who is directly responsible for the deaths of more than 1,000,000 of his own people. |
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01 Apr 03 - 01:15 PM (#923703) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: CarolC I found it very tragic that the Palestinian suicide bomber in Israel this week dedicated his explosion to the "heroic Iraqui people." What is your beef with the Iraqi people? I thought it was Saddam's regime that is the enemy. Are we at war with the people of Iraq now too? Aren't we at war with Iraq to "liberate" the long suffering Iraqi people? As far as anything Israel might or might not have to do with the reason for the war in Iraq, here is a paper written by an Israeli think tank back when Benjamin Netanyahu was Prime Minister. One of the authors of this paper was Richard Perle. Perle is on the Advisory Board of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA), and up until recenty was the chairman of the Defense Policy Board, a (US) Defense Department advisory group. He still serves on that board. People can judge for themselves whether or not Israel had anything to do with the current war with Iraq. But whatever the case may be, it is entirely wrong to say that "the Jews" are responsible for the actions of the right wing government in Israel. Just as it is entirely wrong to say that "the Americans" are responsible for the actions of the right wing government in the US. The Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies' "Study Group on a New Israeli Strategy Toward 2000" A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm "Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right" |
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01 Apr 03 - 01:38 PM (#923724) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: GUEST,Forum Lurker It's unfortunate that a terrorist chose to link the Iraqi people with terrorism against Israel. It puts the Iraqis in a bad light, and makes it appear as if Bush was right about Saddam's alleged links to terror. |
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01 Apr 03 - 01:57 PM (#923739) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: CarolC I don't think the Palestinian suicide bomber was linking his actions to anything the Iraqi people have or have not done. I'd be willing to bet that he was trying to draw attention to similarities that he perceives to exist between the plight of the Iraqi people and that of the Palestinian people. |
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01 Apr 03 - 02:00 PM (#923742) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: GUEST,Forum Lurker He's trying to link both cause and activity. I don't think wither is a good thing. |
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01 Apr 03 - 02:12 PM (#923755) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: CarolC On a bit of a side note, I found it interesting (on the news last night) that Iraqis who have been living in exile in other countries, are now heading back to Iraq to fight for their country of origin, against the US. The harder one tries to control things, the more out of control they tend to get. I'd say this applies to the situations in Iraq and Israel/Palestine, as well as the rest of the Middle East and the world. |
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02 Apr 03 - 08:48 AM (#924407) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: GUEST,Sean Waltman As I said, it's not just right wing wing nuts like Pat Buchanan who are trying to blame Israel and/or Jews for the war. In the Nat Hentoff thread here on Mudcat Cafe I found this statement by Little Hawk: Well, you see, the problem is that it is not Saddam they're really after. They are after Iraq itself. Saddam is simply the red herring to lead the American public (like a bloodhound) down the trail to war. He is no longer useful for killing Iranians, but he is useful for enlarging the American/Israeli/British Empire, at the cost of Iraqui lives and sovereignty. I see no difference between Pat Buchannan and Little Hawk. |
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02 Apr 03 - 08:54 AM (#924412) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: CarolC That's because you haven't met him in person, Sean. That's not your fault, however, so it's understandable that you might have such an hilariously absurd notion about LH's political views. |
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02 Apr 03 - 11:45 AM (#924549) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: Troll "He is no longer useful for killing Iranians, but he is useful for enlarging the American/Israeli/British Empire, at the cost of Iraqui lives and sovereignty" I see nothing obscure about this statement. How anyone could interpret it as meaning anything but what it says is ridiculous. It clearly says that the writer believes that Israel is a partner in Operation Iraqi Freedom. A silent partner perhaps, but a partner nonetheless> And that's what Buchannan is saying. troll |
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02 Apr 03 - 11:51 AM (#924554) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: GUEST,Forum Lurker Well, given that the Israeli government realizes full well that the war provides recruitment for terrorists, who will act against Israel as well as America, you'd think they'd have to be crazy to support the war, vocally or not. On the other hand, Sharon is Prime Minister, so it's not as farfetched as I might hope. |
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02 Apr 03 - 01:13 PM (#924613) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: CarolC Why would someone who asserts that Israel is a partner with the US and the UK in this endeavor be considered a right wing nut, or an anti-semite? If someone singled out Jews for blame, ignoring the involvement of US, and the UK, and ignoring the fact that not all Jews support the government of Israel, such a case could be made. Otherwise, an accusation like that one is just obfuscation. |
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02 Apr 03 - 01:17 PM (#924618) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: CarolC Forum Lurker, I've heard the top government people in Israel argue vociferously in support of war with Iraq before the Bush government was even pushing hard for it. Last year, right about this time, I saw Benjamin Netanyahu on US television, speaking to a US audience, saying that the US should just go in and remove Saddam from power. Someone objected, saying we can't just start a war with another country like that. He said, "you just do it. You don't need anyone's permission, you just go in and do it." |
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02 Apr 03 - 01:48 PM (#924640) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: GUEST,Forum Lurker CarolC, that was Netanyahu, not Sharon. I'm surprised, but I haven't seen or heard anything to indicate that Sharon supports the war. Unusual common sense on his part. |
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02 Apr 03 - 01:53 PM (#924644) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: CarolC Maybe Sharon knows that he needs to keep a low profile on the subject to keep the spotlight off of Israel. But if you read that paper I linked to above, you'll see that according to the right wing faction in Israel (the faction that is currently in power in Israel), the removal of "Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — (is) an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right" |
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02 Apr 03 - 02:43 PM (#924699) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: Sean Waltman I've heard the top government people in Israel argue vociferously in support of war with Iraq before the Bush government was even pushing hard for it. Last year, right about this time, I saw Benjamin Netanyahu on US television, speaking to a US audience, saying that the US should just go in and remove Saddam from power. Someone objected, saying we can't just start a war with another country like that. He said, "you just do it. You don't need anyone's permission, you just go in and do it." CarolC, I'll take your word for it that you heard Netanyahu say that. Last year, right about this time, Netanyahu, was an out-of-office former prime minister. Your suggestion that an out-of-office Netanyahu speaks for the Israeli government is no different than suggesting an out-of-office Bill Clinton speaks for the American government. |
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02 Apr 03 - 02:47 PM (#924704) Subject: RE: BS: Peace Activists in Pakistan From: CarolC See my post in the Nat Hentoff thread. |