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03 Sep 04 - 01:23 PM (#1263583) Subject: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: GUEST,Josephus XXVII Irshad Manji, the always astute iconoclatic feminist/lesbian/Muslim commentator, has published an excellent column in the LA Times about the reasons for the Palestinian/Israeli stalemate. As usual when she publishes a column, Manji gets it right. Here is Irshad Manji's column. |
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03 Sep 04 - 02:53 PM (#1263645) Subject: RE: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: Nerd Thank you, Josephus. It's a breath of fresh air! |
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03 Sep 04 - 03:52 PM (#1263682) Subject: RE: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: Amos Good writing. Thanks. A |
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03 Sep 04 - 05:56 PM (#1263772) Subject: RE: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: Wolfgang Good article, thanks for posting the link. A close look to a very dangerous mindset. However it should be mentioned that in the case of Rabin, demonstrating and jeering was not all the opposition did. Wolfgang |
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03 Sep 04 - 06:15 PM (#1263785) Subject: RE: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: M.Ted If the Palestinians are convinced that there is no future for them as long as Israel exists, (and Israel certainly is not going anywhere), then they won't demand leadership and vision from their leaders-- |
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03 Sep 04 - 06:53 PM (#1263804) Subject: RE: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: Bill Hahn//\\ Thanks for posting that link---interesting article. I, mostly, agree with her thinking. One thing though---the last paragraph. Perhaps I missed something there---SUicide/Martyr designations are interchangeable? Succesful people doing it for love of Koran? I did not follow that---and if it was what I read I would surely disagree. There is a difference---and the alleged martyrs are the frustrated have nots that are promised since youth of a wonderful after life. Not the succesful, as she said, and productive people. As to after life---on a lighter note---female bombers---where are the virgins that the fellows are promised. Surely they are not all lesbians. The guys were surely in for a great disappointment as they turned into the biblical phrases---ashes to ashes---etc; Bill Hahn |
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03 Sep 04 - 07:16 PM (#1263829) Subject: RE: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: CarolC This part of her article is not true: Over the last six decades, several offers for an independent state of Palestine have been floated by the British, the Israelis, the Americans and the U.N. — Palestinian leaders have rejected every proposal. Worse, they have never consulted the Palestinian people before saying no. The Palestinian leadership accepted the "Roadmap to Peace" floated by the US. |
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03 Sep 04 - 07:49 PM (#1263856) Subject: RE: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: Bill Hahn//\\ Which leads, I think, to a Shell station in Iraq. All roadmaps created now by us lead to oil interests. Halliburton should be our national logo ---- Enron really lost the battle of logos. Bill H |
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03 Sep 04 - 07:59 PM (#1263864) Subject: RE: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: CarolC Along the same lines as the article from Irshad Manji, is this piece from Ira Chernus, Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Colorado at Boulder: I Criticize Israel Because I Am Jewish Maybe between the two of them, they can get this mess straightened out. |
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03 Sep 04 - 11:28 PM (#1263957) Subject: RE: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: mack/misophist Another reason for the ready supply of suicide bombers is the fact that their families are paid. |
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04 Sep 04 - 10:06 AM (#1264152) Subject: RE: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: GUEST,Josephus XXVII According to CarolC, some of what Irshad Manji writes is "not true." I suppose it comes down to an issue of credibility. Are you going to believe Irshad Manji, a widely published Muslim scholar and journalist, who has spent extended periods of time in both the Palestinian territories and Israel, who has met with the top leadership, and ordinary people on both sides of the divide, and who is unafraid of baring the truth? Or are you going to believe CarolC, whose only experience comes from surfing propaganda websites? I'll go with Irshad Manji. |
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04 Sep 04 - 12:28 PM (#1264223) Subject: RE: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: CarolC Irshad Manji is most definitely wrong about that one "fact" that I challenged. I only gave one example of why it is wrong. There are others. For instance the Palestinian leadership accepted the Oslo accords. Their signature on the document ought to be enough proof of that. Attacking me personally for pointing out this innacuracy just shows how incredibly weak your argument is. |
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04 Sep 04 - 01:06 PM (#1264244) Subject: RE: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: Nerd Actually, a signature on a document is NOT enough proof, if they go off and violate the accords the minute anyone's back is turned. I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm just saying that CLAIMING to accept a peace proposal and then undermining it is different from ACTUALLY accepting a peace proposal. |
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04 Sep 04 - 01:17 PM (#1264247) Subject: RE: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: CarolC That's true, Nerd. And of course that argument can cut both ways. But that would be opening up a whole new can of worms in this thread, wouldn't it? |
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04 Sep 04 - 01:21 PM (#1264251) Subject: RE: BS: Manji on Palestinian/Israeli stalemate From: Nerd Agreed, CarolC. It would necessarily cut both ways. |