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27 Oct 05 - 01:11 AM (#1591515) Subject: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Ebbie "They" say that everyone should have a week's supply of food and water (and diapers, baby food, ointments?) on hand for each person in the household. My question is what kinds of food should one stockpile? Let's assume that there is no electricity and no piped water. What would you have on hand? (Don't forget the can opener) * Canned meat * Dried milk ? |
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27 Oct 05 - 03:29 AM (#1591546) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Wilfried Schaum Combat rations, 1 per person and day. Different meals, if possible. They are easy to heat and tasty, the surplus is often sold by army units over here. If you prefer civilian food: - legumes (beans, lentils, peas), rice: 700 gr - canned meat: 700 - 1000 gr - hard (fumigated) sausages: 2 big ones - a small dried or fumigated bacon: 1 hind quarter - cheese: 350 gr - canned bread: about 1000 gr - margarine: about 500 gr - canned fish as you like it: 5 cans should keep you for more than 7 days Goober peas are recommended in a song from the Civil War. Garbanzos you can also chew uncooked for a between. - Water: about 3 l per person and day (for drinking and cooking). For cooking: a propane or gasoline operated burner. I have an old Bunsen doing quite well and a gasoline burner which quitted its tank to follow me, but I prefer the bunsen for emergency. |
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27 Oct 05 - 04:07 AM (#1591557) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Paul Burke 7 days? 35 bottles of wine. 14 spare glasses. Dennett's 'Brainstorms' for reading, or the latest Harry Potter if you prefer. I understand "Warren Pease" is fashionable again. The Guardian book of cryptic crosswords and a whole box of pens. Flute, fiddle, concertina, whistle. 12 rolls of toilet paper. 1000l fresh water. Enough gas for the camping stove. Food? Corned beef, potatoes, carrots, onions, Oxo cubes, dried Basil, salt pepper etc. Tins of octopus, garlic, onions, soya sauce, ginger, carrots again, wine vinegar, noodles. That's the first two days taken care of. True Christians should only need water, 5 loaves and 7 fishes. |
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27 Oct 05 - 04:31 AM (#1591571) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: NH Dave I'd make sure my freezer always has a supply of frozen meat, poultry, and possibly vegetables. Most frozen food is good for a week after being thawed, and it may stay frozen for quite a while if you have a chest freezer and you only open it once or twice a day. Tailgating on this idea, frozen food to be prepared the next day can be used, like ice in a small refrigerator or camping cooler to keep other foods from spoiling. You will want to have jugs of water available, especially if you have a well with an electric pump, or live fairly high up in an apartment building. You can use cleaned out gallon milk jugs to store this water. If you fill them to about 90% of their capacity, water expands when frozen, and place them in your freezer they will act like the blue-ice-packs used in picnic coolers, to keep your foods frozen longer. Figure at least a gallon per person per day, assuming that you aren't going to be a stickler for personal hygiene. Get lots of use out of your water by using a little to wash with, saving this "gray" water in a pail or bucket, and pouring it into the toilet bowl to flush the toilet. Using picnic paper or plastic glasses, plates, cups, and eating utensils, if this works with your feelings about ecology, to save on the need to wash dishes. If this is unacceptable to you, save one meal's rinse water in which to wash the next meal's dishes, and keep the wash water to flush the toilet. Bread and other bakery items will keep for a week and require no refrigeration. Day old bread freezes well, and will keep for weeks in your freezer. You can find irradiated milk in some groceries. This milk will keep for months until it is opened. I'd make sure I had a camping stove on which to cook, especially if you have electric heat or cook stove. My preferences lean to the multi-fuel stoves, like the MSR multi fuel stoves, which happily burn kerosene, and can be found in most camping or outdoor gear stores. Kerosene contains more heat per ounce than gasoline, and it isn't as dangerous to store. You can also find inexpensive Primus, Optimus, and Svea single burner "camp" stoves that were made for kerosene and are much cheaper than a multifuel stove. Aladdin, makes mantle lamps that work much like a Coleman lantern and burn kerosene, too. Survival Unlimited , also stocks these lamps. These are fairly expensive lamps, but they are designed to look nice on a living room table, and give off enough heat that they will help to warm the room, and can be used with a camping type set-on oven to slow cook food. Ideally you would have an all gas house, which would mean that you have a 500 - 750 gallon bulk LNG tank outside which you keep fairly full year round. This will run your gas water heater, a gas stove and this can be used to heat one or more room in your house or apartment, by leaving the oven door open, and insuring that a window is slightly open to prevent asphyxiation. These are some hints I've learned from living on a farm with undependable electricity, and in England during their coal strikes, back when they used coal to generate much of their electricity. Dave |
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27 Oct 05 - 05:06 AM (#1591587) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Bunnahabhain Have a garden. Grow stuff, including animals and trees. Have a good stove that burns wood, with plenty stacked dry and ready to use, and it'll do your heating and cooking. Keep a few barrels of rain water, it's clean enough for most things Or failing that, make sure you keep a good set of stock ingredients. They're useful, even if you're not expecting problems. I have all of these about. Rice- several varieties are best Lots of eggs. Chocolate- energy and pick me up Tea, coffee, sugar- is there any situation a cup of tea won't improve? Herbs and spices- If you have limited ingrediendts, they might as well tast exciting. Instant mash potatoe- quick, easy, filling. Oats- porridge is good. Tinned condendsed soup- or tinned pasta, baked beans etc I also have alot of bottled fruit about. So much easier than camping, as you've not got to carry it! |
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27 Oct 05 - 09:12 AM (#1591692) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee Hmmm...the Mayor's office has asked all city departments (including the Library) to have a Disaster Plan to his office by November 1. So we're working on it. One thing that the Committee is thinking about is asking for is a case (12 meals) of MREs. As Wilfried said, they're nutritious and last for a long time (5 year shelf life). This is in case a blizzard or something prevents people from going home from work. Water -- there is 50 gallons of water in hot water heater, all you have to do is open the drain. At home, we have about 3 weeks of food stored in the freezer, tins, and so on at any given time. There are two 50 gallon water heaters as well. Each car contains a half-dozen MRE packs and water treatment tablets as well as Sterno and a pot in which to melt snow, etc. Toilet paper! Have toilet paper! And a book or two...this will be no problem at work..... |
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27 Oct 05 - 10:31 AM (#1591736) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: GUEST,jOhn Beer, Hamster food. |
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27 Oct 05 - 10:58 AM (#1591743) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Ebbie In Juneau, Alaska, we have limited land mass so not many people have enough ground for a garden (or even off street parking) even if one could grow a variety of foods. So, no. I don't have a garden. MREs, while intriguing as a quick fix, I would have to order online. We don't have a military post here, other than a contingent of Coast Guard. I lean toward the notion of ready cooked, non perishable foods. Tinned and canned food- my point is what kind? I could get a case of canned fruit and vegetables like pears or peaches or tomatoes, corn or beans. And meat- I remember the last time I used a can of cooked chicken. Awful stuff. Tasted like metal. Potatoes can be eaten raw or cooked. I like the idea of instant potatoes; however drop a box of it in flood or fire and it's pretty much unuseable. Crackers- not the cookie kind, but saltines, etc, are also vulnerable to moisture and flame but come in smaller packages so you wouldn't be as heavily vested in individual boxes. Rice. Assuming one would have a surface to cook on, that's a good one. In addition to a water heater, I do save a number of jugs of water which I replace now and again. I don't have a freezer. In a one-person household its benefits have never been quite realistic. So the only frozen foods I (would) have are what I find in my refrigerator freezer, all of which currently are uncooked foods. I picked up a small novelty 'cook stove' a few years ago. It's basicly a rimmed, lightweight frame over a burner topped with a grill. It takes rolled up, twisted newspaper for fuel. I've cooked steak on it a time or two and oddly enough, it worked fine. Outdoors, of course. For heat, I'd go to friends who have either fireplaces or inserts. I don't have one but in Juneau, a number of people do. You have to assume that this emergency would take place at the most inconvenient time and inhospitable season. And wine. Thanks, Paul Burke. Lots of wine. |
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27 Oct 05 - 01:52 PM (#1591774) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Metchosin Well personally, a can of tobacco and some cigarette papers to commune with the great spirit and a couple of bottles of single malt to commune with my inner wounded child......that oughta do it. LOL |
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27 Oct 05 - 01:57 PM (#1591777) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Metchosin and a couple of good dogs for extra warmth. |
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27 Oct 05 - 02:11 PM (#1591790) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: mack/misophist One can go a surprisingly long time without food, so triple up on the water. It's much more important. Blankets, painter's drop cloths to keep dry under. Batteries for a radio. Radio. Flashlight. Anything else is gravy. |
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27 Oct 05 - 02:37 PM (#1591812) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Metchosin Yeah, a good scotch is best with a bit of water. Screw the food. And one thing about a good scotch is that its sterilized. About the only thing that will remain alive in a bottle of scotch is the firm belief that eventually a Jacobite Pretender will attain the throne. |
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27 Oct 05 - 02:38 PM (#1591816) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Sorcha Ciggarettes!!! |
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27 Oct 05 - 02:43 PM (#1591820) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Ebbie Batteries! Right. |
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27 Oct 05 - 03:02 PM (#1591836) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Charmion First aid kit including antiseptic swabs (not alcohol), bandaids in a variety of sizes, and burn dressings. |
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27 Oct 05 - 03:34 PM (#1591866) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee A good, sharp, knife -- if you use a folder (pocketknife) get a lockback. A Swiss Army is good. Eyewash in the first aid kit, too. You might want something like this, too. (Learn how to turn off your gas, electricity, and water. And mark the main valve for each.) |
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27 Oct 05 - 03:47 PM (#1591875) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Ebbie Great ideas- including your bunker buster, Rap. Keep 'em coming. (Actually, I am serious.) Another question: Where does one keep everything? Presumably one keeps it all together in one place? |
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27 Oct 05 - 03:55 PM (#1591887) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: MMario peanut (or other nut) butter and meringue powder; both excellent sources of protien - neither require refrigeration; both can be eaten "as is" (though meringue powder is a little gross dry and very gross if reconstituted and uncooked) |
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27 Oct 05 - 04:00 PM (#1591891) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Ebbie Hokay- what's meringue powder? Might I as well get marmite?? |
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27 Oct 05 - 05:21 PM (#1591961) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee Well, actually, I'd get a Sterno stove and several cans of Sterno. Then, if you use reasonable care, you can eat warm meals. |
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27 Oct 05 - 06:05 PM (#1592003) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee Here's a nice site for 72 hours of supplies. Adjust accordingly. |
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27 Oct 05 - 06:07 PM (#1592006) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: number 6 Good thread ..... taking note of the posts here. My concern is an ice storm out this way that will knock ut the power for a good length of time .... missed the last one as we were not living in N.B., but certainly don't want to be caught unprepared. sIx |
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27 Oct 05 - 06:29 PM (#1592018) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Barry Finn Ebbie, why are you asking? Hope things are OK up your way. Good Luck Barry |
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27 Oct 05 - 06:33 PM (#1592021) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: GUEST I am laughing my ass off at the lot of you. Sterno? Are you serious? Yeah, yeah...I heard it all from the New Orleans side of the family, how well they were prepared. They still ended up desperate on a freeway bridge, baking, for 14 hours, waiting to be rescued. Which took intervention by none other than Jesse Jackson. Yeah sure, Sterno would have saved them. All the food they had frozen, all the bathtubs filled, etc. didn't save them from the trauma of surviving the hurricane, the flooding, the looters, the rotting flesh and floating debris, the medical emergencies (one person in their party did die). For some reason, I just don't think Sterno would have mattered much. Their barbeque grills worked fine. But food wasn't the problem you dumbasses! |
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27 Oct 05 - 07:00 PM (#1592045) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Jeri Guest, while you're considering the vast number of possible uses for the phrase "dumb-ass", consider also that there are some other places in the world (and even, believe it or not, the US) where people live besides New Orleans and there are many other disasters besides hurricanes. Alaska is a bit cooler than N.O., and a person might have to thaw their food out not t mention cook it. |
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27 Oct 05 - 07:19 PM (#1592061) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: katlaughing LOTS of rice power protein, or whey protein. Rice, lima beans, split peas, canned fruits, esp. blueberries, pineapples, and mandarin oranges. LOTS of rice milk as it comes in special boxes and does not need to be refrigerated, though it tastes better cold. Shredded wheat and or grape-nuts cereal as well as oatmeal and cream of wheat cereals. Tuna in the flat pouches. Great way to package! LOTS of dried golden figs - good for the intestinal tract. TONS of water...I drink gallons of it anyway.:-) Other canned vegetables, including green beans, corn, etc. Also, packets of jello...it tastes good put in heated water, though it's too sugary for my taste anymore; it is a quick pick-me-up. Virgin coconut oil from Tropical Traditions. Aloe vera juice and gel the one to sip, the other in case of burns. Lots of other stuff, including making sure one has at least a 7 days supply of any prescription or OTC drugs which they take. |
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27 Oct 05 - 08:53 PM (#1592138) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Beer Beer and lots of it. As many cans of Beans you can carry. A large pot of Cabbage soup. And one match. Beer |
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27 Oct 05 - 09:21 PM (#1592157) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Ebbie Guest/Dumbass, that concern is why I asked where one should keep this kind of thing. One might find oneself a mile away or outside a building where one had stashed all the supplies or discover the whole thing is under six feet of water. Or ice, in Alaska. Or - far worse - find oneself separated from one's child or elderly dependent or pets or friends. One can only do what one can do. Nicht wahr? Barry, everything is fine up here. I loved going to the Getaway and I love the terrain there. However, when my plane came in to land at home, I was stunned anew at the beauty of Juneau's surroundings. I've lived here almost 18 years and I'm still in the honeymoon phase of my relationship with Alaska. |
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27 Oct 05 - 09:44 PM (#1592177) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee Ebbie, you can keep food, etc. in pretty near anything. Those barrels they sell to protect food from bears -- I think I saw some at Fred Meyer up there. Or, at home, a metal or plastic garbage can would work. The stuff we keep in our cars are in smallish zipper duffles I got on sale -- about the size of what we used to use to carry our gym clothes and stuff to high school. I'm concerned here about 1) snowstorms, 2) earthquake, 3) wildfires in the hills west of town, and 4) industrial/transportation accidents (we're at the intersection of 2 Interstates, one of which is a major Canada to Mexico route, and we have an EXTENSIVE railroad yard). |
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27 Oct 05 - 11:05 PM (#1592228) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: LilyFestre Hmmm...I think the listings here look pretty good, except for our GUEST who seems to think that we are ALL planning for hurricanes. Here in Northern Pennsylvania, we plan for power outages or blizzards....so yeah...the ideas here WILL work! In our home, we are well stocked with everything, including dry wood....had two triaxles delivered last fall...so there is plenty of wood and it is relatively dry...burns quite nicely (we have the woodstove burning right now!). I'd add having your prescriptions filled for a 3-month period at a time if you can...that way, you should have plenty in case you can't get to town to have it filled. I have also read that it's good to have an extra supply of things that make you feel good....deoderant, soap, shampoo, moisturizer, razors...the daily things that you do that make your body feel good. Michelle |
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28 Oct 05 - 01:16 AM (#1592275) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: JohnInKansas Generic comments: MREs, and/or other "military rations" recommended by many above, are conspicuously marked with the warning that they are "not a complete ration." I believe that the warning on the last few I looked at recommend that they should not be consumed as the sole source of nourishment for more than two (it may be three) consecutive days. They supply calories, but little else. They are also loaded with all the usual preservatives, which can present a hazard to persons with high blood pressure, diabetes, less than fully efficient kidneys/liver, etc. Prolonged use may result not only in dietary deficiencies, but may also cause toxic effects in apparently healthy persons. Some persons will experience obvious toxic effects in as few as three or four days, if MREs are their only nourishment. While MREs are convenient, and useful for a couple of days, a variety of foods should be included in any sensible emergency kit. Adequate water is mandatory. Usual estimates are a minimum of 1 gallon per day per person. Rice is an excellent staple, but does require cooking. While it's not a complete/balanced food alone, it doesn't present a hazard of toxicity when used for long periods. Add a few cans of beans (or dry beans if you have sufficent water and fuel for cooking the dry ones) to supplement. The cans don't all have to be "baked beans." Chick Peas, canned navy beans (without the sauce), etc. should be easily available. Corn meal is probably easier to keep than wheat flour, but like flour it may become "stale" and/or rancid after a while. If included in emergency stocks, the stock should be rotated every month or two. The same beans also will help fill the nutritional gaps that would result from long term corn-only diet. Be sure you have some simple recipes for using it if you're not accustomed to it as a normal dietary item. Grits is good. Canned sardines are an excellent supplement to most of those monotonous "one thing only" diets that are otherwise easy to store. Other canned meats typically have rather high sodium and nitrate/nitrite content and thus present toxicity problems similar to the MREs. A small stock of canned veggies likely will taste really good if your emergency lasts more than a very few days, and will help balance the diet. While a well stocked freezer may be a plus, if you're planning for a world class emergency you must consider the possibility that "the authorities" may have plans to evacuate or otherwise relocate people in your area. A really nasty attack may make you choose to do so on your own. Frozen stuff will be much more difficult to toss into a sack and take along than dry staples and cans. At least a minimal supply of food that does NOT REQUIRE conditioned storage should be planned in addition to your frozen stocks, even if Plan A is to sit it out at home. If you have pets, be sure to plan to feed them and to keep them with you. Left on their own even the best of them can become really nasty predators, so don't do it. Others will abandon their pets so for a major disastor you should consider how you will protect yourself and your emergency rations from the abandoned (and potentially hungry and vicious) pets your neighbors left behind. A good stout club may be sufficient - or not. (Depends on what kinds of critters your neighborhood has, perhaps.) Any emergency in which normal foods become scarce likely will bring out all sorts of varmints you didn't know you were living with, so at a minimum your storage provisions for your emergency stuff must consider "rat proof" as the minimal standard. Consider what you'll do if the rats get into your "living space" even if they don't get to your food. A decent claw hammer and a few nails may come in very handy for blocking holes where they get in. Remember that in an emergency there may be holes where you wouldn't expect them. You can always break up some furniture for something to nail on... You don't have to live near water to need good insect repellant. Broken water lines can flood enough to breed mosquitos and/or other pests you wouldn't ordinarily think of in a few days. Stash some. A stash of flea powder is probably a good idea, even if you don't have pets (see rats above). Planning should include all of the members of your clan to establish multiple meeting places and contacts to inform each other of individual personal condition. Primary points of contact must be agreed on, and alternates and the order in which they will be used would be a good idea in case your first choice places aren't accessible. Include a deck of index cards, markers, and thumbtacks and/or masking tape in your stash, in case you have to leave a note for someone who's absent when you have to leave. Agree in advance where notes will be left. Leave a couple of cards and a marker behind in case they show up, so they can leave a message telling where they plan to go next. Take the rest with you and leave a trail every time you move. Blankets; light rope; hatchet, ax, and/or machete; a good hand-sized knife or two; and a brush saw of some sort can be stashed somewhere accessible. (A brush saw is better for quickly cutting 2x4s and other structural wood than most other kinds.) Flashlights (with spare batteries and bulbs) and a good quality portable radio with batteries and spares should be accessible. Don't rely only on lanterns. They're fine if you stay in one spot; but if you have to move flashlights are preferable. (My personal preference is for several very small flashlights, like the 2xAA maglites for the takealongs.) In a remote area, a "secondary cache" that you can return to if you get separated from your primary supplies might be considered. It doesn't need to be as complete or elaborate as you main supply, but may be quite valuable if the emergency lasts longer than you expected. If you have a "shelter area" that has limited entry/exit points (as most do) or that might have limited exit points in case of structural damage; you should have lighting, fire extinguisher, and sufficient tools to make an exit if needed - inside the shelter. Ax, saw, sledgehammer, pry bar to suit your situation. A chainsaw if you know how to use it and can safely stash fuel for it. A simple first aid kit, with antiseptic and band-aids and perhaps a couple of gauze bandage rolls should be included. A fever thermometer can help tell whether you've picked up an infection and is a great help if deciding what needs to be done - or a great relief if you find you're still "normal." If any member of your tribe has blood pressure and/or circulatory problems, a blood pressure cuff/gage may be very helpful in determining whether there's a crisis or just nervous tension. Even if you don't know what to do with the readings, you may be able pass them to trained people who can't get to you physically. Stocking medications for family members with chronic conditions is extremely difficult because of the poor shelf life of many such meds. You should plan how you will grab what you have and make sure it goes with you. Have a sturdy box that will hold all of your normal supply, and know where it is. If any medications need refrigeration, have a good insulated box and a few blocks of blue-ice at hand. Duct tape. Duct tape. But how big a disaster is it really worth planning for? John |
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28 Oct 05 - 01:23 AM (#1592276) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: JohnInKansas And don't forget to pack the can opener. John |
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28 Oct 05 - 02:13 AM (#1592285) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Ebbie Here in Juneau, Alaska, the things that one might plan for are: Earthquake (Southeast Alaska doesn't have a history of severe quakes- but these mountains came from somewhere) Fire - whenever we have a long (for us) stretch of dry weather our forest dries out dramatically quickly, maybe because the slopes provide such good drainage. We already know that 13 consectuive days of no rain makes their flash point impressive. We have forest on three sides and in front of us is the ocean. Only two roads (parallel) out and they travel through forest. People live and camp on the forest slopes. People I've talked with kind of pooh pooh the risk but I consider fire our greatest threat. Snowslides/Mudslides are a danger in many places in town, with many avalanche chutes. Juneau's nearest railroad is about a hundred miles away so we don't need to worry about contraband on it but we do have many, many boats and airplanes that go in and out and hither and yon daily. If I were the sort I expect I'd be thinking of using a boat to bring in chemicals or bioagents or whatever. Juneau has one factor that could affect us in a unique way. Our waterbound location makes any disruption of supply deliveries problematic within a week or so at the best of times. Many groceries come in by barge, the rest come in on commercial plane- if anything happens in "the lower 48" that disrupts that delivery we're going to be up the creek, so to speak. So it's not only our own disaster that could conceivably force us to live on what we have tucked away. By the way- toilet paper! |
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28 Oct 05 - 03:13 AM (#1592297) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Metchosin In all seriousness Ebbie, I'm in the process of making up two emergency kits in large rubbermaid containers for my daughters and their SOs as Christmas presents this year. Presents that I hope they will never, ever have to use..... and neither includes tobbacco, although I think I might tuck in some booze as a disinfectant and some chocolate. BG Maybe a bizzarre gift, but it really bothered me that we had emergency supplies and camping equipment and they had naught, nor the finances to assemble kits from scratch. Another useful thing is household bleach. I always put a few drops in the water we have stored here. Amounts for the quantity of water you wish to treat are readily available on the Net. I've included the chart in our bin as well, as I always forget how much to put in when I change the water every few months. A tarp is also a useful inclusion. Keeping your gas tank topped up, if you have a vehicle, might be an idea also although I find it a hard habit to establish, but at least I now keep a pair of hiking boots in the car all the time just in case I have to hoof it. And then again, "The best laid schemes o' mice an' men, gang aft agley". |
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28 Oct 05 - 04:57 AM (#1592336) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: My guru always said What a wealth of fabulous information and kinship on this thread. I've found it quite an eye-opener & a humbling experience living here in my 'safe' part of the UK. Keep up the good info & keep people on their toes. Positive thoughts to all! |
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28 Oct 05 - 08:15 AM (#1592352) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: The Fooles Troupe There are 2 types of useful "batteryless" torches. One comes with the windup dynamo - some of them you can use the output to run a phone charger too (or a small radio) - some of them run at 12 V, some types even have a built in radio. A newer style is the "shaker". It has LED lights so is very low drain, and has a magnet in a coil which you cause to jiggle about by shaking. This generates a current which is stored in a large (VERY LARGE value) capacitor. You need no batteries, and they should store indefinitely. If you are paranoid about he EMP from a nuclear explosion, you can wrap them (and the trannie too) in alfoil and/or place in side an old biscuit tin for protection. One trick was to put such things inside sealed plastic bags at the bottom of the refrigerator, also a reasonable shield. |
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28 Oct 05 - 10:55 AM (#1592359) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: LilyFestre I would suggest a radio as well, a weather radio, the exact term eludes me at the moment...but one you can crank to get it to go...no electric or batteries needed. And Metchosin....what a wonderful idea for a Christmas present....useful and practical and something they won't likely want to spend money on for themselves...I like it!!! I might just steal your idea........ Michelle |
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28 Oct 05 - 11:05 AM (#1592365) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: MMario meringue powder is dried powdered egg whites. Mixed with water and a touch of oil can be substuted for eggs in recipes - mixed with water can be scrambled (essentially what egg beaters are made of) can be eaten dry. take up far less room then frozen eggs/eggbeaters/ needs no refrigeration; stores easily, portions easily - high quality protien. etc, etc, etc. |
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28 Oct 05 - 11:36 AM (#1592393) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Stilly River Sage A friend in Ventura, north of Los Angeles, has had an "Earthquake Kit" for many years. Every so often when we talk she'll mention that their recent meals contain some of the contents from the kit, because they're eating the old contents after replacing them with fresh. This way the what they're eating is still good to eat and the kit is in good shape. If they aren't replaced every six months to a year canned and dried goods will get old. Canned goods don't last forever, and when they start to go downhill they do so very quickly. For those intending to keep all of that food in freezers a generator would be a good idea. And (after watching the Katrina recovery) those who have to evacuate--you might do a quick calculation on the value of your refrigerator and/or freezer versus the value of the contents therein. Is it worth it to have the power go out and the spoiled food ruin the appliance? Might be worthwhile to take the food out and take it with you if possible. It might come in handy in the shelter. Our kit consists of a laundry basket tucked into a bottom cupboard with canned goods and beans and rice and such. Lots of bottles of water are in storage, enough for 5 to 7 days of drinking. There is a Coleman stove in the garage and fresh fuel. We have sterno, but that isn't good for much more than warming since the alcohol burns at such a low temperature. I had my share of undercooked meals in my early climbing days to know that a pressurized gas stove is much more efficient. You'll spend all day trying to cook otherwise. We live on a creek and there are fish in it. I suppose in a pinch we could consider fishing (but it's an urban creek so as a rule no one eats what they catch in it). Our pets can eat people food for a few days if we are short of their food. SRS Know-it-all anonymous guests post the way they do to get a response, the angrier the better. Gives their inconsequential lives a little meaning if they can annoy others. |
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28 Oct 05 - 11:41 AM (#1592395) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee For long term (months, years) JiK is right. But we're looking here at no more than 7 days -- and while MREs (for example) might not be the best choice for long term food (GAK! I hope not!) it's very unlikely that a person in average health will develop dietary deficiencies in a week. But ANY emergency scenario MUST take into account the health of the people involved. My wife has no thyroid function so cold will affect her more than me; I am insulin resistant and must watch what I eat. So we take that into account. Yes, you might be evacuated to a shelter and you should prepare a kit for this as well. And if, like me, you live in an area subject to wildire you should have your evacuation preparations made so that it would be a "grab it and go" moment. Different areas, as I noted before, require different preparations. General rules can be made, but you have to modify them to fit your situation. |
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28 Oct 05 - 02:17 PM (#1592522) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Metchosin Check stuff out too so you are familiar with how it works beforehand. The crank radio that I packaged for one of my offspring said it only took x amount of turns to charge. I figured it was a dud because it still wouldn't pick up anything, so I doubled the amount of cranking and it finally worked like a charm. Radio is an incredible tool. We had an uncommon, unexpected blizzard with about 4 to 5 feet of snow a number of years ago and the local government infrastructure was unable to cope, so basically everything shut down for a number of days. The local radio station, which was on generator, took up the role of emergency coordinator, command post and broadcast centre and got emergency patients and medical staff to and from hospitals with volunteer 4X4 drivers. The elderly who were in need, phoned in and were looked after by neighbours. As well, a host of other problems were solved. After a couple of days the local military assisted with transport too. Of course it only worked as well as it did because, in the grand scheme of things, the loss of hydro and transportation for a few days, hardly rates on a disaster scale and the phone system was still up and running. However, radio sure helps to counteract the feeling of isolation during such events. A very good wake-up call. What we did learn was forget about relying on government to provide assistance, it always seems to come way too late, despite all the fanfare to the contrary. In a crunch, its the locals that get stuff done, utilizing common sense, improvising on their own and right off the mark, without layers of bureaucracy to really screw things up. And….if using a propane camp stove…….remember to pack extra O rings. |
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28 Oct 05 - 03:03 PM (#1592556) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee Back when I was walking the levees of the Upper River (there's only one river, and that's the Mississippi) I learned that you can't rely on the government in a disaster. And that was better than forty years ago. Later my wife, two friends, and I were trapped by snow in a car while we were on an Interstate highway. We were able to get moving again because the people who were trapped dug out a way to get off the highway and into a shelter. You have to rely on yourself. The government cannot and will not come to your individual aid -- it will be too busy with the "big picture" to do much for you no matter HOW much the government workers might want to. You have to take responsibility for yourself and your loved ones. |
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28 Oct 05 - 03:31 PM (#1592577) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: leftydee A couple of plastic tarps, at least 15'x15', and some rope (learn to ties some knots, it's easy) are definitly in order. They can provide shelter, patch a roof, collect rain water or dew and lots of stuff you'll invent if the need arises. |
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28 Oct 05 - 04:54 PM (#1592647) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Donuel If you are not facing a flood, a kids swimming pool in the basement will supply hundreds of gallons to flush toilets etc. |
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29 Oct 05 - 03:50 AM (#1592953) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: darkriver Lots of good thoughts in this thread. We live in the San Francisco Bay area, so it's all heavily metropolitan around here. Many many people. A quake collapsing a few key bridges and freeway overpasses can easily prevent sufficient supplies of food and medicine from entering on the scale required for the size of the population. So in addition to the ideas mentioned above, we also make use of community. Our block has organized an earthquake (read disaster) group. We have subgroups organized around communication, search & rescue, and first aid. We train each other to look out for each other. Every July we have a picnic/cookout on the street, and go over some of our search & rescue and first-aid drills. We get to know each other, learn useful skills, open the door to trust. I now know who on my block I can trust to come through in a pinch, who I know will watch out for my kids if I'm not there during a crisis. It really frees up your mind to think in a more problem-solving way when you know you're not alone. (There's also a subtext here of protection; all those *other* people without food or water might come rampaging through looking for stuff. Having an organized small community helps here too.) Those of you who are urbanites might find this a good thing to along with stocking up on water and MREs. Doug |
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29 Oct 05 - 05:20 AM (#1592982) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Wilfried Schaum Ebbie - since you are living single, you don't need masses of storage room. What is fresh in your frigidaire which will not work due to lack of electricity, prepare or eat first; cook for more than 1 day if necessary. Store your rations in the cellar; potatoes and apples are good. Dry packed legumes will also hold a long time. For canned goods: store what you are accustomed to consume, and use them during the non emergency times when inclined so, and replace them immediately. So you avoid a canny taste when storing them too long. If you are subject to floods, don't store in a cellar; take a higher floor, in the coldest room. Rapaire made some interesting remarks about being trapped in his car. In my car boot I always have a blanket, an entrenchment tool (folding spade), and an MRE, courtesy to the German Armed Forces ("can also be consumed cold without considerable loss of nutritive value and noticable forfeit of taste"). Bon appetit |
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29 Oct 05 - 09:23 AM (#1593092) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee We keep the following in the cars: Outside the bag: A collapsable (avalanche-type) snow shovel. Traction material, such as kitty litter or sand. A woolen, ex-Army, blanket wrapped in a large plastic litter bag. In the bag: *Metal containers -- big coffee cans, cheap camping pots -- for heating water, etc. and in which are stored: A roll of toilet paper (good for LOTS of things) Waterprooff ("Lifeboat") matches and striker in a small sealed jar Tea bags, sugar bags, instant cocoa, packets of instant coffee, bullion cubes Plastic spoons, forks, knifes 2 Plastic bowls a bunch of those waterless clean-up towellettes 3 or 4 of those chemical "handwarmers" a deck of cards a small notebook and a pencil *2 Plastic drinking mugs, in which are stored more waterproof matches water purification tablets paper coffee filters (for filtering water before purifying it) a "P-38" folding military-style can opener *a couple paperback books *a pack of 3 "emergency" candles *a small folding "backpacker" stove & 3 small cans of Sterno *a sharp pocketknife *three packs of MREs *two pairs of cotton gloves *two pairs of ex-Army woolen socks *one pair of cheap rubber overshoes (the kind that go over your shoes) A towel...well, no. But a sign that reads "Don't Panic" might be appropriate. The sugar packs, plastic ware, and such items were collected from various restaurants (Wendy's has utensils all done up in plastic bags). Another place for things are those packs some motels put into rooms that have coffee makers. DON'T put in liquids -- pick up a bottle or two of water BEFORE you leave home. Liquids freeze in the winter. Each car also has, year around, an assortment of bandaids, highway flares, a "fix-a-flat" inflator, a flashlight, and other "regular car stuff." |
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29 Oct 05 - 02:26 PM (#1593246) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Ebbie I'm getting a lot of ideas and how to's from this thread. Thank you. (I especially like Rap's "bullion cubes"- ya never know when you might need money.*G*) Downtown Juneau, where I live, is a small community separated by about 10 miles from the 'valley' where about 60% of the population lives. I like darkriver Doug's post about community awareness and planning. Juneau has a new disaster planning organization- but not much has come from them yet. A year or so ago I called them to ascertain whether Juneau had a gathering place or an evacuation plan - and the director said that we do not as yet. I 'll hve to get back to them and see what has changed, if anything. Panic is not an appropriate response to traumatic events but one way to avoid panic is to see beforehand - in the cool of the moment - what can be done. |
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29 Oct 05 - 03:20 PM (#1593279) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: GUEST A gun for each member of the family and extra ammo. |
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29 Oct 05 - 03:30 PM (#1593285) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee Money isn't a bad idea, but I meant (as I'm sure you know) the cubes that make hot broth. Turns out the our fair city has had a disaster plan since February, 2003. We just weren't made privy to it. However, we got us friends in low places, we do, and we got ourselves a photocopy of the fifty or so page document. Why governmental agencies want to keep such things quiet I don't know. Dig into it, Ebbie, and you might find such things exist. Community is the ultimate "survival" tool. It's been shown over and over. Anyone who thinks that they can survive alone and unaided after a disaster is self-delusional. |
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29 Oct 05 - 03:52 PM (#1593293) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: JohnInKansas Rapaire comments that the incomplete nourishment provided by MREs shouldn't be a problem, which is true; but the main point I meant to emphasise is that the preservatives may be toxic to some persons within a very short time if you don't have enough other food to clear the system - and especially if you don't drink enough water. If you plan to rely on them for more than one or two meals, perhaps you should try eating them for a period comparable to your intended "emergency" use before you're stressed out by a real emergency, so that you know your limits. I have seen people who brought MREs to festival and ate only MREs for as little as three days puff up and turn red (flushed) and lose all interest in getting out and about. The first symptoms weren't too bothersome to them, but were obvious to everyone else; and they'd have contributed little if we had needed them for anything very strenuous. The suggestion that anyone relying on their freezer should consider a generator is probably a good one, but a bit of research I did recently on the possibility of adding one to our camping kit wasn't too encouraging. The small ones generally need at least a gallon or two of fuel per hour, and refueling every 3 to 5 hours. Safely storing enough fuel even for a week of intermittent use is problematic. In many areas, if about half the people decide to evacuate they'll take all of the accessible local fuel supply with them, and you may not be able to go get a couple of gallons. The "web opinion" also is that the small units aren't really all that reliable, even allowing for the tendency that those who've had problems are much more likely to post. Installed generating units, with their own propane or diesel fuel storage or off natural gas (relatively, but not completely, immune to interruption) are rather expensive and hard to justify unless you're in an area where there are frequent interruptions. Not the sort of expense you'd want for a "might happen once someday" sort of thing if there are alternatives. If you're considering a generator, do your research carefully. And consider that a reasonably full freezer should last about a week without power if you're careful about how often you open it up. John |
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29 Oct 05 - 04:12 PM (#1593303) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Ebbie I know, Rap - it certainly seems odd that a region could plan for disaster mitigation but without involving the people in the region. Something wrong with that notion. I have written it on my to-do board and next week I'll call the committee and see what they have in the way of concrete plans. |
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29 Oct 05 - 04:15 PM (#1593306) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Sorcha The Mormon Church says keep a year's worth on hand!!! If I put all that stuff in my car there wouldn't be room for me! |
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29 Oct 05 - 04:20 PM (#1593310) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee We'll be buying a battery/AC/crank AM/FM/NOAA/TV/VHF radio for work which will also charge a cell phone. In a pinch the staff can use one of the Library's cell phones (it's kept near the car) and have a way to charge it (and their own phones). The Disaster Committee asked me if I'd consider a generator to keep the Library running. I told them that I'd consider it if they found the money.... In the meantime, we'll buy flashlights and things. |
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29 Oct 05 - 04:23 PM (#1593311) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Peace From the LAFD. Regarding a seven-day supply: Gallon of potable water per day per person--this is to drink, cook with and wash. Keep the water in your bathtub for flushing the toilet. Don't flush after you pee. Just after you poop. Unless you have health problems, are very young or very old, seven days on a very restricted diet ain't gonna hurt you. I'd keep seven cans of stew--chicken or beef; seven packs of orange juice or something like that; flour, salt, lard. Per person. That oughta hold ya. |
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29 Oct 05 - 05:04 PM (#1593327) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Jeri MREs don't have any more preservatives than canned foods. They aren't toxic, and many foods are from contractors who stick the same exact things in cans and sell at your local supermarket. The foods are in thick plastic bags that are sealed after the air has been removed. They are then put inside another heavy plastic bags. They are like can's, but they're flexible and don't dent and the metal doesn't react with the ingredients. I think the reason you aren't supposed to eat them for extended periods of time (and I've managed for 6 days) is because there isn't a whole lot of fiber in them. (I avoid saying 'any' because there are usually two or 3 peas in the chicken a la king.) So take the MREs into the shelter, but bring a fiber laxative too. |
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29 Oct 05 - 05:36 PM (#1593346) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee Well, according to my brother...the original idea was that you could heat the MREs by soaking them in hot water poured into the heavy outer envelope. Then you could use the hot water for coffee or tea. Only, the hot water leeched something out of the plastic that caused the water to act as a laxative. A very good laxative. This was not at all what the military had in mind, and an order went out not to use the hot water for anything else than heating. Now they have MRE heater packs, chemical heating units. I'd rather use a different heat source if I have to eat them. |
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29 Oct 05 - 05:53 PM (#1593359) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: JohnInKansas Jeri - I guess you're reading the ingredients and warnings off of different MREs than I've seen. There are several varieties, and they may not all be the same. They are not toxic in the sense of being hazardous to most people but the ingredients listed on ones I've examined, and the reactions observed in a few people who used them excessively, do indicate that certain people may be adversely affected. During an emergency is not the time to find that you're one of them. For MOST PEOPLE, they are okay, even for several days; but we do have a few people here who've cited particular health problems that could cause them to be affected. My suggestion is only that you know your own tolerance before assuming that you'll be okay with using them for more than a very few days. Most people could live for quite a while on 20 pounds of peanuts, but some people could not. If that's all you've put in your emergency stash, the few that are affected could be very seriously harmed. For some people peanuts are toxic. Used in unusually large and sustained "doses" this includes more than just those who know that they are frankly allergic to them. In the same way for some people the prolonged us of MREs is known to cause toxic effects, and I do know a couple of folk who have been told by military physicians to "just go hungry" if that's all they've got because of their known individual sensitivity to them. John |
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29 Oct 05 - 06:14 PM (#1593368) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee More information (from a non-military source) about MREs than you've ever wanted to know. |
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29 Oct 05 - 06:38 PM (#1593385) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Jeri If they contain an allergen such as peanuts or peanut oil, I can see the problem. Also, the meals aren't made for anyone with special dietary needs, and the main entrees are loaded with fat and salt, so that may be what you're talking about. if not, what toxic ingrediends ARE you referring to? Rap, I don't think there was a problem with the bag. MREs contain a chemical heating element. You stick that in the outer bag with some water and jiggle it to activate, then you put the bag of 'food' in to heat it. After that, there are bits of crud in there. I don't know that anyone would be desperate enough to use water from in there for coffee, but they warned us not to. My guess is that some genious did it. (Probably related to the guy that prompted the 'do not eat' warning on dessicant.) |
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29 Oct 05 - 08:56 PM (#1593438) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee Nah, Jeri, this was way back when MREs were first introduced and the heating unit was not yet in existence. There are also other prepared meals with built-in heating units. You can often find them at the larger truck stops; they run about US $6.00 each. |
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30 Oct 05 - 12:53 PM (#1593628) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Metchosin For those that want an alternative to MREs due to limited storage space or other reasons, you may want to consider some of the stuff from Backpackers Pantry Some of it was a little boring and pretty pricey (there are usually cheaper and sometimes as tastey alternatives, especially soup/oatmeal porridge at most grocery stores) but their Beef Sroganoff entre is absolutely delicious. Although, if I recall, my daughter and I consumed a four person serving at one sitting. Then again we were burning off a lot of calories. Also consider packing something for siphoning gas. If one has more that one vehicle, the gas in a spare vehicle might come in handy. |
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30 Oct 05 - 08:08 PM (#1593896) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: GUEST Back to Ebbie's original question: You want stuff you can eat without cooking (packets of cheezncrackers / peanutbutterncrackers) or stuff you can heat up quickly with a minumum of grief and fuel. (you may be heating this stuff on a barbeque, your gas starter logs, coleman stove, or who knows where) For this you want canned soups, the chunkier & heartier the better, and chili, which require only brief heating. Try a couple brands of canned chili to see which actually taste good, then lay in several cans of that. And a can of tamales if you love 'em. Round out your pantry preparation with pop-tarts, granola/trail mix, snack bars, apples/fruit, nuts, crackers, chips, and tons of bottled waters, juices, sodas. If you use an outdoor grill remember it is useless without a goodly stash of briquets or propane or whatever so lay that in. And if you're gonna have the grill up every a.m. to brew coffee or tea water, may as well get some pancake mix that you can mix with just water. But you may not have to live on all canned & boxed stuff, if you manage your fridge & freezer well. Ideally, have a big block of ice in the freezer you can transfer to a cooler the instant the lights go out. Then: Keep yer fridge & freezer shut, shut, shut. Don't peek, tape it shut to keep kids from absentmindedly opening them. Drap a blanket over the freezer if it's hot out. Day 1 after power is out (12-24 hours) quickly pull out your fridge perishables & eat 'em, or put in an ice chest with ice. Leave in the veggies and pickled & preserved foods for later. (Ketchup, mustard pickles all keep without power). Also pull out your batteries if that's where you keep em. Day 2 quickly open your freezer, pull out some meat to grill/ veggies to boil, close it up quickly, and put a tarp or whatever over to insulate (and throw in bags of ice if you can get some, to hold the freezer). Pull out the veggies from the fridge and use the most perishable. Unwrap and spread out the ones which will survive in room temperature on your counter for later: (carrots, squash, potatoes, onions, grapes, tomatoes, whatever). Trim your lettuce head & celery stalk at the root and stick in bowl or glass with a little water in the bottom so they will stay alive at room temperature. Day 3 if the power's still out: unless it's icy cold out, in which case the freezer can go quite a while longer, your freezer is now in danger. Invite the neighbors over for a barbeque and cook a ton of meat and pots of veggies from the freezer before you lose it (unless you can cadge someone into giving you generator time for several hours which will save the freezer). Day 4 Hopefully power is back on by now. If not, throw out any remaining stuff in the fridge (except for vinegar preserved foods, butter & oils, & sugar preserved foods.) When you are sure the freezer has also 'gone south' (things are no longer cool to the touch) start cleaning it out too. If you do not, you are going to wind up with ruined appliances. Finally, help your neighbors and they will help you. This information gathered courtesy of Katrina. |
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30 Oct 05 - 08:23 PM (#1593906) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Bard Judith Wow, what a lot of information! (wide-eyed, nods seriously) If we ever have a disaster here, I'll be sure to turn on my computer, check my Bookmarks, haul this thread up, and read through it all .... Oh, wait.... Seriously, there is a lot here, and most of it applicable to us north-of-the border Canucks, your friendly neighbors. Although I have no idea how I would get my hands on a MRE even if it proved digestible.... JohninKansas, I may just print off all of your posts and tape them to the side of my fridge! I grew up in Northern Ontario, and sometimes joke that I was raised 'Calvinist and Survivalist', from digging proper biffies to skinning a partridge. Not much call for that sort of thing in suburban Oshawa, but it was good preparation for living and traveling in South-East Asia, anyhow. |
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30 Oct 05 - 09:14 PM (#1593939) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: The Fooles Troupe I always keep a couple of 2 litre ex milk plastic screw top bottles of salt water in the bottom of my chest freezer - when we lost power for nearly 18 hours - no ill effects (I keep a thermometer in there!). My neighbour and I went out and bought some dry ice to drop in our freezers - as we got home, the power came on again. Look around NOW (before you really NEED it!) to find where you can get dry ice - the place I went to makes it and has a contract with hospitals for blood products storage/carriage, etc. A reasonable size block wrapped in newspaper then a fluffy towel will last a few days, and is generally colder than a normal freezer temp. When buying a new freezer - chest freezers are better than upright ones, as when you open the door, you get less input of external warm air. If you are thinking about a generator - the startup load of a fridge and/or freezer is much greater than the running load - you may damage or burn out your generator if you are not aware of this. TVs too have a higher startup load. BTW, if you have an old dead 2 door fridge, you lay it on its back (you can remove any external coils, motor etc), and you have a neat 2 door freezer/ice box - put dry ice in the freezer, and ice in the fridge compartment (remember to allow for drainage!) - great for long term camping use! You can even use the motor compartment for dry (warm) storage too. |
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30 Oct 05 - 09:21 PM (#1593944) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee Wonderful. I have two (2) chest-type freezers buried in the back, just outside the basement patio door. No, I'm gradually filling them up with rocks and stuff. They're slowly going back the that with which they were made, and I'm not going to use them for food storage. And really, I have absolutely no idea why anyone would bury such things in the back yard. Dangerous, with kids around.... |
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30 Oct 05 - 09:39 PM (#1593959) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: The Fooles Troupe You can fit hasps and padlocks on the doors for safety when they aren't being used for storage - hey! they're old and just junk really, you're not going to damage them much are you? :-) |
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30 Oct 05 - 09:44 PM (#1593964) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee No handles. These are chest-type freezers. You can get an idea of them here. Third picture down.... |
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30 Oct 05 - 09:59 PM (#1593976) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: The Fooles Troupe Wasn't necessarily referring just to you Rap. |
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31 Oct 05 - 09:13 AM (#1594165) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee I know. I still wish that there had been a body in one of the freezers so that the police would have removed them. I'm not up to tearing down a perfectly good stone wall, myself. We've got a couple of very good large ice chests which we use for a lot of things. We'd put the freezer contents in those because they ARE chests -- our (small) freezer is an upright. And in cold weather, of course, we'd keep them outside. Freeze stuff solid enough and it acts as its own ice for a few days -- and our ice chests can (and have) keep stuff like that frozen solid for a week. |
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31 Oct 05 - 05:39 PM (#1594437) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: JohnInKansas Re the MRE "argument:" Several years ago, when local authorities responded to one or the other of the "everybody has to have an emergency plan" edicts from the Federal office of something or other, stocking of MREs for general distribution in case of an emergency was suggested. A request for information to the Natick Lab that developed MREs got a recommendation that MREs probably were acceptable for stocking in a shelter, for use by the people in the shelter, but they should not be considered for distribution as longer term emergency food. The rationale cited by Natick was that the MRE was developed to meet the needs of military field personal, and was not suitable for distribution to the population at large: a. Military field personal must meet minimum physical requirements, and physical conditions that would make MRE consumption hazardous generally are excluded from the population for whom MRE use is intended. b. Community shelters would mostly be occupied by persons sufficiently mobile to get to the shelters by their own means (the concept at the time) and this should eliminate most persons with serious medical conditions that might be affected. The few who might be affected were considered "probably an acceptable risk" assuming very short term use. Note on b: The plan sent to Natick for comment included the stipulations that expected shelter occupancy would not exceed 3 days, that specific medical personnel were designated to report to each shelter location, and that a specific minimum list of medical supplies would be stocked at each shelter. Specific other plans were made for "persons with health problems." These conditions were noted, particularly the presence of trained personnel in the shelters, and were factored into the Natick reply, and in the determination of "acceptable risk." c. Natick at that time recommended that MREs not be used for distribution to the general population due to the likely inclusion of small but significant numbers of persons who would be adversely affected and the absence of direct access to trained medical personnel who would be "immediately present" to watch for and treat any undesirable effects in the susceptible persons. d. Portions of the Natick reply were quoted by local news media, but I do not have copies available, and I doubt they are accessible now. Specific "conditions" that were cited by Natick, from memory, were persons using high blood pressure medications, diabetics, persons with reduced kidney capacity, persons with reduced thyroid capacity and/or on thyroid replacement medication. Other conditions that could cause increased risk were cited, but my selective memory only retains those I knew at the time were risk factors to specific persons among my close friends. Some time after the above series of incidents, one of our local politicians decided that donated the aging stock of MREs to one of the current disaster efforts would be a good idea, (probably so that one of his favorite contractors could rip us off on the "replenishment"). The Red Cross refused the donation that was offered, with a statement to the effect that: MREs are safe only for military field personnel, which is a group that does not generally include persons with medical conditions for which MREs are contraindicated. MREs are not considered safe for general distribution to a population that might include large numbers of people who could be affected adversely and might not have access to medical assistance. The last incident was perhaps ten years ago, and offered MREs that were well into their expected shelf life, if not nearing expiration. The advice given, from Natick and from the Red Cross thus was based on fairly old kinds of MREs. Continual upgrading of the product does take place, and newer MREs may present fewer hazards. MREs have been, and are being, distributed to Katrina victims in suffient quantity that at least one politician has demanded a Congressional investigation into whether relief stocks are included in the surge of MREs offered for sale on eBay. I do not know which of the many relief agencies is responsible for this distribution, or whether they are following the advice of knowledgeable people. Please note that I had NO INTENTION of starting a debate over MREs, and those who are perpetuating this as an argument about them have missed the point I hoped to make. NO ITEM THAT YOU DO NOT CUSTOMARILY USE AND KNOW TO BE USEFUL TO YOU SHOULD HAVE ANY PLACE IN YOUR DISASTER KIT: UNLESS IT IS FOR A KNOWN AND SPECIFIC USE, and UNLESS YOU HAVE TESTED ITS SUITABILITY FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY, UNLESS YOU KNOW HOW TO USE IT, and UNLESS YOU HAVE DEMONSTRATED THAT IT WORKS AND HAVE USED IT ENOUGH TO BE SURE IT WILL WORK IF YOU NEED IT. If you have not eaten it and know that you can prepare it, consume it, and tolerate it for the expected duration of an emergency it has NO PLACE IN YOUR KIT. MREs were cited only because I know several people who have stocked them and who have never eaten one, and have been warned that a few people do not tolerate them well. The people who haven't actually used them have no idea whether they will be useful to them if they need them, and having never looked at one, could NOT TELL if one was normal or had rotted in the package due to package damage and was unsafe to eat. A few years ago, I learned that a "friend" had purchased a chain saw for his "disaster kit." He'd had it for a couple of years, and had never tried to start it. He did not know that the expected "life" of his emergency chain saw probably was less than 20 minutes if he ran the 2-cycle engine on straight gasoline without mixing lube oil, and didn't have - or know where to get - proper oil. He'd never heard that he needed chain lube. I'd suspect that if he needed it, the 20 minutes it might run would be sufficient for him to create at least a "secondary disaster" by seriously injuring himself or someone else - if by some remote chance he actually managed to start it. Additional bad examples, perhaps, on request. John |
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01 Nov 05 - 05:30 AM (#1594811) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Wilfried Schaum Anybody selling a chain saw to the untrained, especially without protective gear, should be shot at sight. It is a dangerous device creating more desaster in the hand of the unexperienced than the razor in the hand of the monkey. And thanks a lot for the vast information on C-rations. I must confess that I never saw problems with consuming them; if they are good for me in my BDU, they are good for me in my three piece suit, I thought. And I'm still alive, as you see. An one item I have forgotten: our iron rations which are used as a last resort when you are cut off the supply for a longer time. They are of a papery stuff and are sucked, containing calories and the vitamines and so on you need for survival. They must not be used except by direct order, but no one in his right mind would use them voluntarily. But they are light, they don't need no special storing room nor cooling, and you can carry them with you. |
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01 Nov 05 - 07:29 AM (#1594846) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: LilyFestre I'd like to add to the items in your car list....you have coffee, tea, cubes for making broth (can't spell it to save my life!), packs of sugar, etc...but for those of us who are diabetic (especially if you take insulin) will need some source of sugar. The sugar packs WILL work but I personally like to keep a stash of granola bars in the car. In case of having a low, it will raise my blood sugar levels and keep them even better than a pack of sugar. We've been known to add lunch size bags of pretzles too. Both of these things are not affected by the temperature in your vehicle and aside from warding off dangerous lows, make your tummy feel not quite so empty when stranded. Also, we have coffee cans packed with candles and matches...the coffee can is used as a candle holder with tall sides to keep the wind off the candle...this can be a source of light if needed. Also, the coffee can keeps the matches dry (which have been wrapped in tinfoil and two plastic ziploc bags). Michelle |
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01 Nov 05 - 07:46 AM (#1594856) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: JohnInKansas At the risk of introducing a new direction of thread drift - this thread was opened with: "They" say that everyone should have a week's supply of food and water (and diapers, baby food, ointments?) on hand for each person in the household. My question is what kinds of food should one stockpile? Let's assume that there is no electricity and no piped water. Various people here have assumed one or the other of two main scenarios: Situation 1. The power is off for about a week, or you're snowed in until roads are cleared, or the creek did rise but it's probably a local event, and normal is expected to come back (in a week or sooner) and we'll pick up where we left off. Situation 2. There is a widespread major disastor, and you need to take care of yourself (for about a week?) while you wait for outside help. Nothing is likely to be "normal" for a very long time. For most people, Situation 1 is not a disaster. It's at most an inconvenience. Unless you have very limited storage space and no refrigerator/freezer of nothing more than "tiny apartment size," you probably don't purchase groceries more than once a week, unless you're just in the habit of stopping by every day for "convenience items." You probably have enough of your normal "stock" of food to last at least to the next grocery trip, and with a little bit of scraping around the pantry you're not in serious danger of starvation if you have to stretch it to a week, or even a little longer, before you get out of the house. Things in your refrigerator should be safe for a few days, and the freezer probably is good for a week if you just use a bit of care about minimizing how often you get into them. If you know that things will soon be "normal" again, you needn't have the sort of stress that makes people hurt themselves. Take a break. Relax. Read a good book. Of course planning to be as comfortable as possible, and sharing your plans with others, is a good idea even for the Situation 1 event; but most people aren't really going to need to do much. The things they might want to do to make it a little less disruptive are certainly worth some thought. Probably the "they" who urged a weeks worth of stash were thinking in terms of the Situation 2 event. The key things here are that: You must stay in good shape until the outside world gets to you. All outside services, not just electricity, may be unavailable. You should consider the possibility of injuries from the event that created the emergency. You should consider the possibility that some of what you stash may be damaged by the event that created the emergency. You should consider the possibility that the causative event may cause structural damage to what you planned to use for safe shelter. Relocation, forced or voluntary, is likely. The stores ain't likely to be open when the week runs out. Things may never be "normal" again. Since a few people seem to have assumed one or the other of these two extremes of "why you need to prepare," I wonder if anyone would like to reconsider, or possibly add to, any of their suggestions after thinking a bit about "the other" (whichever) purpose. Most of the suggestions offered are pretty good, so maybe it doesn't make much difference. John |
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01 Nov 05 - 09:13 AM (#1594924) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee John, I never wanted to start any kind of argument. I use MREs in my cars and I (and my wife) know how to prepare them. We've eaten them. They are FIELD rations, intended for active, healthy soldiers; the caloric content alone should give pause to the sedentary. They are not and never were intended for long-term sustenance (more than a few days). Nor can I speak to the MREs which are kosher and halal -- I've never eaten any. Being "insulin-resistant" I am very careful of sugar intake. And my wife has other health problems, being athyroidic. If pushed to choose from rations developed for the military, I'd probably opt for the old-fashioned C-rations. But that's a personal choice and they're no longer available. So I would create my own: there are cans of tuna, cans of chicken, cans of beef, and other meats. There are even packets of salmon and tuna available in foil pouches, ready to eat. There are complete meals available in the supermarket which are "heat and eat" and which can be heated from a variety of sources -- microwave, boiling water, etc. You must choose for yourself and yours from the options available. And don't choose something you wouldn't normally eat or don't know how to to prepare! Try it first, preferably camping or under other less-than-perfect conditions, because that's what you'll be working under in a disaster. And what you choose should be in constant flux. Better products do come along and you current stuff reaches an expiration date. Your health needs change. Even your tastes change. Continuous reevaluation should be key. Don't forget the can opener, a decent knife...and your towel. And above all, Don't Panic! |
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01 Nov 05 - 10:15 AM (#1594953) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: open mike in the fire service we have been known to call those rations Meals Rejected by Ethiopians... we keep several in each fire engine. Swedish hard tack bread...rye crackers is long lasting...and nutritious, it seems like the type of food that would sustain sailors on board ships for long voyages. this plus pickled or canned herring would nourish you. plus the time it takes to chew the stuff would while away the hours!! they make solar batteries for cell phones....but if the power outage knocks out the cell towers and system, it will not help much to have them. trail mix, or gorp (Good Old Raisins and Peanuts) or energy bars will give you nutritions food value. Diet for a Small Planet is a book that offers much advice about balancing protein sources advising to combine foods for complete dietary advantage. beans + rice legumes + grain for added nutrition. i would second what has been said about matches! and toilet paper! and don't forget about the sun screen, trust me on teh sun screen thing! and i do not know if i could make it thru ANY day with out chap stick or lip salve!! |
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01 Nov 05 - 10:09 PM (#1595458) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: JohnInKansas A couple of our camp friends, both "Army Nurses" of extensive experience, spent long hours discussing MREs in camp. Most of the conversation settled around "trade items," with long discussions about which candy bar was best as an abrasive for sharpening your camp knife (bayonet), etc. There is apparently a real variety of "useful(?)" stuff in them, but you have to have all of the assorted kinds to appreciate them - and a few suckers to stick with the "tradeables." "How to convince" others was frequently discussed with respect to specific component items, and rather elaborate sales pitches evolved. They both were "very Irish" so the rest of us had to watch for the Blarney; but of course it was difficult for them to lie to each other. Even for non-smokers, I'd suggest that a couple of propane lighters might be considered. Even with the best protection matches may get damp, sometimes just from humidity. Drying them out doesn't restore them, but a very wet propane lighter usually will work if you just dry it out a bit. If you may want to start campfires - especially if you don't practice minimalist firebuilding a lot, the long-necked "charcoal lighters" are more easily used, and many of them have a "shut off switch" that prevents them being accidentally depleted. The famous war surplus "naphtha lighters" or classic Zippos are worthless if you don't use them every day so that you know when they need refueling; and neither the naptha lighters nor the fuel stores particularly well without very careful preparation. Some may not be familiar with "blue towels." Paper towels sold as "shop towels." They are durable enough to be washed, dried, and used almost indefinitely. They can be used as washcloths. They're almost impervious to mildew etc. I keep a few rolls hidden from people who might think they're "just disposables." At $4 to $6 per roll, they're too expensive to throw away - but you shouldn't anyway. One roll can outlast 5 or 6 rolls of ordinary paper towels if used carefully. Get a roll and try one towel around the kitchen for a week. Rinse and dry as needed. Put the rest in the stash if you like them. And of course, the can opener and the toilet paper should be mentioned in every post here. It's messy, but you can open a can with a rock. Improvised substitutes for the toilet paper can cause "medical problems" in addition to embarrassment. John |
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01 Nov 05 - 10:29 PM (#1595462) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee NOLS has been teaching to use a nice, smooth, rock instead of toilet paper, or so I understand. Ah, no thanks. There are many things you can use instead of toilet paper -- the old Romans used sponges on a stick that were kept in a jug of water, some cultures today use water appropriately applied (and I'm not talking about a bidet!), there are other things. A nice, smooth, rock is outside the pale, at least to my mind. Use toilet paper. |
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02 Nov 05 - 12:02 AM (#1595518) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: The Fooles Troupe George Washington used dried husked corn cobs.... I'm not making this up you know... |
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02 Nov 05 - 04:19 AM (#1595584) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: JohnInKansas Foolestroupe - I'm sure you won't believe it, but I am old enough to remember using several of the "old fashioned" wipers. Corn cobs were one of the better ones, but they're best if not too dry. I don't recommended them if there are more modern alternatives. Should one ever be actually faced with the need, I should note that my grandfather - a person of extensive "experience" in the matter - identified numerous fairly common plants growing around the farmstead by the generic classification of "smart weeds." Explanation: "If you ever wipe your ass with it, it'll make you "smart" enough to never do it again." (Pun was intentional). While I'm afraid I didn't learn to identify the many (at least 30 or so, I'd think) specific plants that were pointed out to me, I trust his experience in the matter. Any "green" plant with enough sap to make it feel flexible may produce an "irritation" of "sensitive places" even if you are not affected by more ordinary handling of it. As it's easy enough to demonstrate that an apparently smooth blade of grass (some kinds) can be used to cut a sheet of cardboard, unexpected physical removal of sensitive tissue parts can also be a consequence. Pack the T.P.. It's a "necessary." John |
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02 Nov 05 - 09:10 AM (#1595712) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee Years and years and years (there are more "years" to this, but I'm feeling old enough already) a member of my Boy Scout troop used poison ivy leaves for toilet paper. This is NOT recommended a practice in the Boy Scout Manual, then OR now. The next year he was playing around, peed into some plants -- and yes, you guessed what they were, didn't you? -- but also managed to have a tick jump from those poison ivy leaves onto his...his...well, the camp nurse (and his troop mates) found the whole episode quite hilarious. No, it wasn't me. Pack toilet paper. And an effective insect repellent. |
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02 Nov 05 - 12:02 PM (#1595813) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Ebbie Rap, do ticks jump? Seriously. |
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02 Nov 05 - 12:46 PM (#1595859) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: JohnInKansas Ebbie - Quite definitely ticks sit on tall grass or weeds, sometimes bushes and trees, and launch themselves at anything that passes. When in heavily infested areas, tucking your pant cuffs in is far from sufficient. Some duct tape cuffs and necklines shut (a recommendation by some Fish & Game advisors) to avoid them getting to the inside. John |
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02 Nov 05 - 01:15 PM (#1595867) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Ebbie I didn't know that. Where I grew up in Virginia I never picked up a tick. Did acquire some leeches from time to time in the streams though. |
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02 Nov 05 - 01:33 PM (#1595881) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: MMario I've never understood the corn cobs - I've used corn HUSKS - but never the cobs. |
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02 Nov 05 - 02:17 PM (#1595907) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Metchosin Sorry to butt in, however, ticks don't have legs that are adapted for jumping, they crawl. They don't launch themselves out of grass, brush or trees, one picks them up by brushing against them. |
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02 Nov 05 - 02:29 PM (#1595917) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Ebbie That has been my understanding, too, Metch. You got a link? |
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02 Nov 05 - 03:06 PM (#1595936) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Metchosin This one might tell you more about TICKS than you really wanted to know. |
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02 Nov 05 - 03:12 PM (#1595939) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: JohnInKansas MMario - Corn HUSKS dry out rather rapidly once they're off the ears. They can be rather abrasive, have sharp edges if they're bent and crack, and you never know when a finger is going to poke through. Reasonably fresh cobs are surprising soft and somewhat absorbent. Once they're thoroughly dried however, they make a good (mild) abrasive for metal polishing. Ebbie - Ticks are fairly common in nearly all US locations. I don't know how frequently they're found elsewhere. They're most commonly found in fairly tall grass or brush, and usually where there are fair numbers of warm blooded critters around. And they do jump as far as a few feet to get onto anything warm. Whether repellants are effective for ticks is debated, but usually where there are ticks there are enough other insects to make using them worthwhile and they may have some effect on the ticks as well. In infested areas, daily close inspection of all parts of every person's body should be performed. Self inspection usually suffices if done carefully in a shower, since you can usually feel them on "wet places" when you slide your hands around; but a buddy system is generally recommended (sometimes one of the side benefits of "hard times). If ticks are suspected, modesty should NOT prevent you from being adequately searched by almost anyone available to assist you. (Note that you only really need help with the places you can't do for yourself; but telling your buddy that is optional.) Ticks frequently crawl around until they find little nooks and crannys before they "attach" themselves. They'll often hide in "hairy places" - including but not limited to the scalp - where they can be hard to find when small. They may be about the same size as fleas, or only a little larger, when they first land, although they usually grow very rapidly once they're attached. Like leeches, they're unlikely to suck enough juice out of you to do any real harm, but because of serious diseases they can carry prompt removal is essential. Folk methods such as covering them with oil or other substances or heating them with the end of a cigarette DO NOT WORK. Once attached, the tick is incapable of releasing it's grip until it's full, so "persuasion" doesn't work. The ONLY acceptable method of removal is simply to yank them off, but it's important NOT to squeeze the body since that can inject the tick's own body fluids into you and increases the risk of infection. They need to be grasped only at the head and/or beak at the point where they are attached, and pulled straight off. If necessary, pinching up a bit of skin with the beak and taking skin and all is better than risking "squishing" the tick's body. The place where they were attached should be inspected carefully to make sure no beak parts were left behind, and an antiseptic of alcohol dab applied if available. You can do a pretty good job of removal if your fingernails are a bit on the "longish" side so that you can get to the tick's head with them. A dull knife slid against them on one side may let you use a thumb to grip them against the knife edge and pull them off. Special "tick tweezers" are available and do a good job, although you're unlikely to find them labelled as such except in areas where ticks are very common. In most disaster scenarios mosquitoes and fleas - especially fleas infesting mice and rats (and perhaps bunny rabbits) - probably are a much greater hazard. For those you need repellants and insecticides. John |
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02 Nov 05 - 05:19 PM (#1596009) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Metchosin JohnInKansas, in the grand scheme of things it is probably insignificant, but despite what you would like to believe, ticks don't jump, not even one inch. A tick's mouth parts have a hypostome, which it implants in the skin and its hypostome is covered with backward facing projections, with which it uses to anchor itself to its host. When you dislodge a tick, it is possible that the hypostome or some of these projections will be left behind, even if you do manage to completely remove it's head. This is another reason why you should keep an eye on a tick bite. Some manufacturers of tick removing instruments claim that if you rotate the tick, when using their tool, the projections on the hypostome will compress and not leave the offending bits behind when pulled out. I have no idea if this is true, I've only used my fingernails and never examined the bite under a microscope afterwards to see what came off the hypostome. I have removed a lot of ticks from my dogs over the years and one from my husband, only following up with a good wash of the area and a dab of Hibitane or Detol, with no complications. The ticks up here on the coast aren't known to carry Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, so I've never been particularly concerned. However, recently my neighbour picked up a tick and she developed a tell-tale bulls-eye ring around the bite and had to take a round of antibiotics as a precaution against Lyme's Disease. Perhaps the problem will eventually travel farther up the coast too. In any case Ebbie, no fear, a tick bite is not the most likely problem in a disaster, they're probably not going to start mutating and jump out of trees at you. I've been wandering around on deer trails for years and, touch wood, have yet to end up with one. A wasp sting is more likely. |
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02 Nov 05 - 07:50 PM (#1596056) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Ebbie I never heard of a tick in wet side Oregon (the western side of the Cascade) but in Virginia we were advised to always inspect yourself and your travel partners and your animals. When my daughter was 7 or 8, she called to me in the other room: Mom, Renny (her dog) has a tick on his belly! I said, OK, I'll be there in a minute. A moment later she called, Here's another.... And here's another! I cogitated a bit then said, Kelly, are they in a row? She said, slowly, Yes....? |
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02 Nov 05 - 08:40 PM (#1596082) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Metchosin LOL. Well as much as I hate to admit it, I've felt through fur and been initially fooled for a moment. |
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02 Nov 05 - 11:26 PM (#1596181) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: JohnInKansas Metchosin - Various sources seem to be in conflict on the jumping ticks. I'll agree that the don't appear capable of much more than crawling about, but information releases from several Fish and Game and Hunting organizations have given the information that the "jump" or "drop" from vegetation, and it's not necessary to brush against the vegetation for them to get to you. There's also conflicting information on whether they sense warmth to tell when there's a target to move onto, and/or whether they're like fleas in being able to sense CO2 emitted by the respiration of warm blooded animals in the vicinity (also a bit of a myth). In most incidents I've seen, they're never seen crawling about, so I suspect it doesn't make a lot of difference how they got there. They're nearly always found in the shower or during a deliberate body search after people have been out in the tall grass. John |
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02 Nov 05 - 11:52 PM (#1596194) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Metchosin I would think that fish, game and hunting associations should endeavour to pass on valid scientific information regarding TICK BIOLOGY rather than promulgating myths. BG Beware the questing tick, he won't jump but he will be attracted by heat, movement and CO2. |
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03 Nov 05 - 09:14 AM (#1596398) Subject: RE: BS: Seven-Day Emergency Supplies From: Rapparee Well, poor ol' Vic got the tick on the head of his...male member. Whether or not it jumped on was sort of irrelevant to him, what with all the laughter. The poison ivy on sensitive areas two years in a row was bad enough, but he really topped it the second year by getting TWO problems at once. I will leave the first aid suggestions made by his fellow Boy Scouts to your imagination. This is, by the way, a true story. Actually, a "chemical toilet" or one of those used for camping might be included in the supplies. |