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20 Jan 99 - 06:51 PM (#54950) Subject: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: Jon Bartlett I'm looking for a source for the phollowing phour-line piece of philosophy: He who borrows Medusa's Eye Resigns to th'old Empiric Lie: The Knower Petrifies the Known, The Subtle Dancer turns to Stone. Who esle would know but Mudcatters? (and, no, it's not Leonard Cohen).
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20 Jan 99 - 08:19 PM (#54962) Subject: RE: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: Bill D It seems there is a poem by Shelly about the Medusa (Leonardo's statue), and in this page, there is a long discussion about it, in which the possible 'eye' metaphor is mentioned..the wording of your quote is a bit similar to the language...perhaps there is a link...*shrug*
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20 Jan 99 - 08:37 PM (#54966) Subject: RE: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: Pete M Yes Bill, my initial reaction was Shelley too, but the phrase doesn't seem to come up in any of the searches (electronic and paper) that I've done. Meanwhile to keep up interest, this link will take you to a picture of the medusa's eye produced by the Julia set. Pete M |
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08 Apr 07 - 02:58 PM (#2020026) Subject: RE: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: GUEST,Greenstreet 'who borrows medusa's eye, falls prey to the empirical lie. the knower petrifies the known, the subtle dancer turns to stone." I think Theoder Roszak quoted ot some where ? Cult of Cnformation ? Might it be it be Kant ? |
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08 Apr 07 - 03:11 PM (#2020035) Subject: RE: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: Peace "The knower petrifies the known; This Ding an sich must turn to stone!" That is from Kant's "Critique of Pure Reason". |
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08 Apr 07 - 03:14 PM (#2020038) Subject: RE: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: Peace Found it attributed thus at http://partyflock.nl/flocktopic/26741.html He who borrows Medusa's eye Resigns to the empirical lie The knower petrifies the known The subtle dancer turns to stone William Blake |
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08 Apr 07 - 03:40 PM (#2020054) Subject: RE: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: Peace PARDON ME: The attribution of that line to Kant is WRONG. It was in an article outlining "Pure Reason". My apologies. O'Neill "I met a Ding an sich one night It gave me quite a nasty fright. I cannot tell you how it looks, For, as you know from all the books, Things in themselves are not in space. I thought, "I am the first of all my race To have an intellectual intuition. I'll synthesize my apprehension And then describe it blow by blow." But then the Ding began to go. I said, "The knower petrifies the known; This Ding an sich must turn to stone!" Immediately I made acquaintance With the thing—as an appearance." |
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08 Apr 07 - 04:45 PM (#2020083) Subject: RE: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: Amos "Who borrows the Medusa's eye Resigns to the empirical lie! The 'knower' petrifies the 'known; The subtle dancer turns to stone!" This sounds like a poetic essay on Schrodinger's Cat and the Uncertainty Principle. It is attributed to Blake in the only quote of it I found on the 'Net but the source work is not named, helas. A |
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09 Apr 07 - 08:28 AM (#2020393) Subject: RE: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: Jim Dixon I searched for "petrifies the known" with Google Book Search, and it told me that those words appear on page 290 (which must be the last page of the appendix) of "The Making of a Counter Culture" by Theodore Roszak. That page is not available for viewing online, however. I suppose Roszak was quoting someone else, but I guess someone will have to examine the book to find out who. If it was really by as famous a writer as Blake or Shelley, I would expect Google to turn it up in its original context, since surely the works of Blake and Shelley and their ilk have all been digitized by now, don't you think? Maybe not. See Shelley and Blake at Project Gutenberg. |
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09 Apr 07 - 09:55 PM (#2020986) Subject: RE: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: Peace There was nothing available from Blake. I think the attribution from that blog is wrong. But then I've screwed up before. |
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09 Apr 07 - 10:19 PM (#2021011) Subject: RE: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: Amos Dank, such an elegant little quatrain and NOBODY knows where it's from!! Ain't that a goat-gitter, though? A |
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28 Oct 19 - 02:45 AM (#4015754) Subject: RE: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: GUEST,charlie jackson From the preface to The Making of a Counter Culture: Reflections on the Technocratic Society and Its Youthful Opposition is a work of non-fiction by Theodore Roszak |
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28 Oct 19 - 03:40 AM (#4015759) Subject: RE: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: Mr Red Looks like Theodore Roszak (1933-2011) revisited the lines. There is a Fakebook entry referring to "Return to the Wastelands" by him. |
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28 Oct 19 - 05:20 AM (#4015778) Subject: RE: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: GUEST,Grishka Usually attributed to Allen Ginsberg in 1961. The Medusa metaphor refers to Perseus, of course, not to Leonardo. Judging by googling, especially photographers feel addressed and challenged to justify their occupation. The idea, however, refers to "analytic" knowledge altogether, as exmplified in mathematical sciences. Anti-science ideology accuses them of cruel tyranny over mathematically challenged dancers – an idea dating back to the seventeenth century and still in vogue. Many claim a popular misconception about quantum mechanics for "Queen's evidence", hence the above posting by Amos. Summary: great poetry; beware of propaganda. |
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28 Oct 19 - 10:26 AM (#4015825) Subject: RE: for Pholk Philosophy buffs From: Lighter The famous writer is indeed Allen Ginsberg. The lines appeared in his collection "Planet News" (1967). They may have appeared earlier in Ginsberg's "Empty Mirror" (1961), but without a copy handy I can't guarantee it. The lines are strongly influenced by both Blake and Yeats. |